Background Lore and Additional Lore

[theelcorspectre]

Asking advice for a small house rule I was thinking of implementing.

Would it be broken to make it so that the lore skill that player characters get from their background automatically increases it proficiency rank at the same rate as if they got it via the Additional Lore skill feat?

It just seems weird that one of the most important lore skills to a character’s history will stay at trained for the entire campaign since no sane player would increase a lore skill’s proficiency at the expense of increasing the proficiency of something more useful like Athletics or Stealth.

I feel this would have extremely little effect in terms of PC power level, but maybe there is something I’m not thinking about.

What do you guys think?

[Dr. Frank Funkelstein]

I use this rule for some years already and think it's neat to keep recall knowledge interesting in their area of expertise.

Some of the more recent backgrounds have additional lore baked in.

[TheFinish]

I actually make it a player choice on whether they want it to scale like Additional Lore or not, since some characters are trying to leave their past behind and it wouldn't make sense for them to keep getting better at something they dislike to do.

But yes it's a good idea overall and it really doesn't unbalance the game at all.

[pauljathome]

One small rules change I made.

If a character gets Additional Lore somehow or other they can choose to advance EITHER the new Lore OR their original background Lore.

[Perpdepog]

I can't see any issues with it either. Background lores are baked into the background, so you can't even run into the edge case of someone purposefully picking a lore that is intended to circumvent needing other skills, like a ritualist picking Ritual Lore for making their checks, or a magic weaponsmith taking Magic Weapon Lore to craft with. (And even then, these are helpful options IMO, not potentially dangerous ones.)

[Squark]

The only issue is if rare backgrounds are in play. It's probably fine that the rare backgrounds wothout a lore aren't getting buffed, but what about rare backgrounds with multiple lores?

[HammerJack]

pauljathome wrote:

One small rules change I made.

If a character gets Additional Lore somehow or other they can choose to advance EITHER the new Lore OR their original background Lore.

This isn't even a rules change anymore. Before the remaster, it would have been, but after, it was perfectly by the book to take Additional Lore in your background lore.

[pauljathome]

HammerJack wrote:

pauljathome wrote:

One small rules change I made.

If a character gets Additional Lore somehow or other they can choose to advance EITHER the new Lore OR their original background Lore.

This isn't even a rules change anymore. Before the remaster, it would have been, but after, it was perfectly by the book to take Additional Lore in your background lore.

Unless I'm missing something if you take Additional Lore - Background Lore skill you do not get trained in another different lore to compensate. Not a huge deal but that is still a difference

[HammerJack]

You are missing something. It is a general rule that if you would become Trained in a skill and are already Trained or better in that skill, you choose a new skill to become Trained in. If the skill was a lore, the new skill must be a lore.

[pauljathome]

HammerJack wrote:

You are missing something. It is a general rule that if you would become Trained in a skill and are already Trained or better in that skill, you choose a new skill to become Trained in. If the skill was a lore, the new skill must be a lore.

Right. Thanks

[Ravingdork]

HammerJack wrote:

You are missing something. It is a general rule that if you would become Trained in a skill and are already Trained or better in that skill, you choose a new skill to become Trained in. If the skill was a lore, the new skill must be a lore.

Where specifically is that rule located in the Remaster?

EDIT: I looked into it. The rules for Backgrounds only indicate that it is possible at level 1. The first page of the Skills chapter also appears to speak of it in context of a level 1 character in regards to Backgrounds.

I have yet to find anything that clearly states that this, as a general rule, applies past level 1. Is it somewhere else then?

Also, when I take Additional Lore in an existing Lore skill, neither Pathbuilder nor Hero Lab grant me an extra Lore skill.

[HammerJack]

The beginning of the skills chapter gives the background as the common example of how this can happen. It does not say that the rule is exclusive to background Training.

Automation on Pathbuilder and Hero Lab aren't really relevant to anything.

[Ravingdork]

I assume you mean this rule?

Player Core 225 wrote:

A character gains training in certain skills at 1st level: typically two from their background, a small number of predetermined skills from their class, and several skills of your choice granted by their class. This training increases your proficiency ranks for those skills to trained instead of untrained and lets you use more of the skills’ actions. Sometimes you might become trained in the same skill from multiple sources, such as if your background granted training in Survival and you took the ranger class, which also grants training in Survival. Each time after the first that you’d become trained in a given skill, you instead allocate the trained proficiency to any other skill of your choice—though if the skill is a Lore skill, the new skill must also be a Lore skill.

Note the beginning where it frames the rest of the paragraph in the context of 1st level.

The introductory section for Backgrounds says something similar.

Player Core 84 wrote:

If you gain the trained proficiency rank in a skill from your background and would then gain the trained proficiency rank in the same skill from your class at 1st level, you instead become trained in another skill of your choice.

AT FIRST LEVEL is not something we can ignore.

I'm certain your rule interpretation that it is applied generally at all levels is the correct, intended one; I just have yet to see an actual written rule that confirms it. Everything so far appears to be framed in the context of 1st-level characters.

There's no evidence that the rule continues to apply past level 1.

[Errenor]

Yes, I'd say this reads as a general rule:
"Sometimes you might become trained in the same skill from multiple sources, such as if your background granted training in Survival and you took
the ranger class, which also grants training in Survival. Each time after the first that you’d become trained in a given skill, you instead allocate the trained proficiency to any other skill of your choice—though if the skill is a Lore skill, the new skill must also be a Lore skill."
Inset to the right indirectly supports this:
" Unlike when you first become trained at a skill, if two different abilities would make you an expert, master, or legendary in a skill, you don’t get to choose a second skill to become expert in — the redundant benefit simply has no effect."

[Super Zero]

There's only one person ignoring part of the text there.