Bear Guardian Deity of the Forest: Exemplar or Summoner?


Advice


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I've always had in the back of my mind a character that I'd love to play that's essentially the archetypical guardian deity animal of a location. It's the type of thing that comes up a lot in japanese media, but I think there's plenty of examples elsewhere.

I want it to be a bear who is empowered to protect his forest from outside threats and keep it in balance. Since the concept ties a lot into land deities, I thought Exemplar would be a great way to capture that "being that is on the spectrum of divinity" fantasy, without loading up on spells and magic that takes away from the "I'm a huge bear and I will crush you in my massive jaws" fantasy.

Unfortunately, it looks like Exemplar doesn't do anything to make Awakened Animal unarmed attacks any good. Some of the Ikons could help make the character defensively decent, but it looks like it's falling pretty flat.

I'm instead considering a tiny awakened bird Summoner to act as the herald of my character, who is the Beast Eidolon (Bear). Being another awakened animal helps keep some of the mechanical consequences of playing a creature from the wild, so the feel isn't too hurt. There appear to be a lot of advantages going this way, like slightly better base attack damage, some built in abilities like a charge and a roar, and having a pocket healer/buffer.

Unfortunately, I've never optimized or played around much with either of these classes. Is there a way you would go about it differently?

Goals:
Is a big bear who is good at clawing and biting and other bear activities.
Gives off a commanding, intimidating aura.
Has supernatural abilities, but not necessarily spells.
Someone would reasonably identify them as the divine/primal/spiritual ruler of a small forest domain.


Additional options that I am coming up with:

Spirit Instinct Barbarian with Animist or Druid archetype for the nature spiritualism aspects. It would have the normal mechanical problems of being a Barbarian with spellcasting.
Clawing and Biting: 5/5
Commanding/intimidating aura: 3/5
Supernatural abilities: 3/5
Thematic recognition: 4/5

Thaumaturge. Regalia, Amulet, Chalice, Bell, and maybe Wand look like the Implements that could be themed the easiest to a nature spiritualism theme. Thaumaturge also works well as a base for spellcasting archetypes if desired.
Clawing and Biting: 4/5
Commanding/intimidating aura: 4/5
Supernatural abilities: 5/5
Thematic recognition: 4/5


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I'll have to take a look at Thaum, I haven't played around with them much either. At first glance, I think their Charisma has a lot going for the concept. I don't necessarily like the "carrying a bunch of stuff" fantasy however. Hoping this bear looks more like a forest creature than not.

Unfortunately, for me, all roads lead back to Barbarian. I have made so many barbarians for various concepts that I gotta just put my foot down. It can't always be the right choice for me!


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I think a GM could be convinced to handwave some of the item flavor of Thaum as long as the hands and actions are satisfied. I think the biggest issue is the squishiness, which doesn't feel super bear-like. Have you seen how survivable Thaumaturges are in play?


I'd go with Awakened Animal (Bear) Fighter and then ask the GM to allow you take Rivethun Invoker since it seems like it would fit your character concept perfectly, as the archetype is all about channeling spirits to create magical effects but doesn't rely on spells.

Fighter doesn't upgrade your natural Awakened Animal weapons directly but it does provide a lot of solid all around options to work with the natural weapons playstyle.

Another option would be Monk (and the Archetype) for a similar feeling, and Qi Spells do also fit pretty well with your concept.


I played a Thaumaturge for a few battles of book 2 of Extinction Curse. I didn't find them to be too squishy. I was building as a ranged/melee switch hitter, so I didn't always charge into the front line. That may make a bit of difference.

AC is pretty much universal across classes with a couple of outliers (Monk/Champion on the high end and no-armor casters on the low end). Thaumaturge is an 8HP class, so the same as Magus, Rogue, and Inventor. Those classes aren't shying away from melee range, but they aren't powerhouses at it either. Thaumaturge feels to me like it fits in that category as well.

As for Implements, yeah you can certainly work with the GM for things. Even without GM intervention, the Implement items don't need to be manufactured/crafted items. A Chalice Implement can be just a rock in a fancy shape. Regalia Implement can be this particular tree branch.


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I don't understand why Exemplar wouldn't fit.

Quote:


Hands Of The Wildling
Weapon Ikon
Ikon
Usage a melee free-hand weapon or a melee unarmed Strike

Tattooed fists, savage claws, or even powerful gauntlets—you swing each with the fury of an animal from the woods.

Immanence
Strikes with your hands of the wildling deal an additional 1 spirit splash damage per weapon damage die. You are immune to this splash damage.

Transcendence — Feral Swing [two-actions]
Spirit Transcendence
You lash out with both arms, rending all before you. Each creature in a 15-foot cone must succeed at a basic Reflex save against your class DC or take spirit damage equal to your normal Strike damage with your hands of the wildling. You can choose to swing with abandon, which imposes a –2 circumstance bonus to enemies’ saving throws, but causes you to become off-guard until the start of your next turn.


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WatersLethe wrote:

I'll have to take a look at Thaum, I haven't played around with them much either. At first glance, I think their Charisma has a lot going for the concept. I don't necessarily like the "carrying a bunch of stuff" fantasy however. Hoping this bear looks more like a forest creature than not.

Unfortunately, for me, all roads lead back to Barbarian. I have made so many barbarians for various concepts that I gotta just put my foot down. It can't always be the right choice for me!

I've reflavoured my Thaum to be something like a shaman.

I made him before Animist (or even rivethun stuff) was out, and basically most of his abilities are some kind of spirit related. Like, his knowledge is spirits telling him stuff and hedge wisdom lore he learned, his amulet is housing a spirit that protects him and his allies, his lantern bathes stuff in spiritual light to make them visible, the spirits use his tome to communicate with him.

even now, that i finally hit 18, i reflavored the implement assault as an army of spirits coming out and slashing at his enemies.

---

what i wanted to say with the above, is that if you don't like the visuals of "i have a bunch of stuff to make custom weaknesses" you can always reflavor them. Thaum is so easy to just reskin as a host of different things his powers come from.


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Blue_frog wrote:

I don't understand why Exemplar wouldn't fit.

Quote:


Hands Of The Wildling
Weapon Ikon
Ikon
Usage a melee free-hand weapon or a melee unarmed Strike

Tattooed fists, savage claws, or even powerful gauntlets—you swing each with the fury of an animal from the woods.

Immanence
Strikes with your hands of the wildling deal an additional 1 spirit splash damage per weapon damage die. You are immune to this splash damage.

Transcendence — Feral Swing [two-actions]
Spirit Transcendence
You lash out with both arms, rending all before you. Each creature in a 15-foot cone must succeed at a basic Reflex save against your class DC or take spirit damage equal to your normal Strike damage with your hands of the wildling. You can choose to swing with abandon, which imposes a –2 circumstance bonus to enemies’ saving throws, but causes you to become off-guard until the start of your next turn.

The 1d6 jaws with no good traits from Awakened Animal isn't boosted by Humble Strikes, so it's pretty anemic. Hands of the Wildling is pretty bad, and other options don't work with bite, so they're stuck with even worse 1d4 damage.

Liberty's Edge

Be an Animal Yaoguai and take the Morphic Strike feat for an Agile, Finesse, 1d6 Slashing Claw unarmed attack in the Brawling group.

It qualifies for Gleaming Blade.

You can then be an Exemplar, for example with MC Champion for Retributive Strike.

Or a Fighter MC Exemplar, or a Monk MC Exemplar, or a Champion MC Exemplar. Or any combination thereof.

And you can always take Adopted Ancestry (Awakened Animal) if you like their feats.


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I completely forgot about Yaoguai! That's a great suggestion. As for multiclassing Exemplar, I'm holding off on using that strategy until it gets a nerf.

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