So let's say we've got about a dozen characters (NPCs) roughly spaced around 15 to 20 ft apart. The lead character has an item, already in hand. Is there a way RAW for these characters to hand the item (or throw it, or something) down the line to each other character in succession during their turns, or if not, is there a house ruling general consensus on this situation? Also, are there any abilities (feats, etc) that would make this more doable?
(This question's from a DM; I'm not a player trying to do peasant railgun)
The rules aren't going to cover this sort of situation because it is highly unlikely to come up.
Personally, I'd think it would probably be a move action to hand an object to another character (heavier objects might take a standard action or even a full action), as this is the action cost for 'pick up an item', 'draw a weapon', and 'sheathe a weapon'.
Note that this sounds like a situation that might possibly 'break' game mechanics a bit: Each character acting individually and in the right order could let an object travel at ridiculous speeds (a dozen characters each moving 30' and then passing the item to the next character would let the item move 360'+ in 6 seconds or roughly 41mph).
A feat that might be relevant
Shared Ownership (Teamwork)
Source Inner Sea Races pg. 209
The concept of ownership is rather flexible among you and your friends.
Prerequisites: Well-PreparedAPG, Sleight of Hand 1 rank, halfling.
Benefit: Whenever you’re within 30 feet of a halfling ally who also has this feat, as a move action you can draw an item in that ally’s possession as if it were on your person. This is not a magical effect—you just conveniently happen to remember that you had borrowed that item earlier. The item must be something that easily fits in a pocket or sleeve, such as a dagger, potion, wand, or scroll. When you or an ally draw an item (whether or not you do so using Shared Ownership) or otherwise definitively establish who is holding the item, you can’t use Shared Ownership to draw the item in this manner until you have had at least 1 hour to mingle with your companions
Yeah, this weirdly isn't even something I was *trying* to set up, we ended last session in the middle of combat and I just took a look at the map and went "wait..."
(For context, there's a group of rogues trying to steal an item the party's trying to protect.)
I guess move action makes sense? Apologies for rules ignorance, but could you replace a standard action with a second move action to move 30 ft and then hand something to another person on the same turn? Or is that not how it works?
rogue171 wrote: Yeah, this weirdly isn't even something I was *trying* to set up, we ended last session in the middle of combat and I just took a look at the map and went "wait..."
(For context, there's a group of rogues trying to steal an item the party's trying to protect.)
I guess move action makes sense? Apologies for rules ignorance, but could you replace a standard action with a second move action to move 30 ft and then hand something to another person on the same turn? Or is that not how it works?
Yes, you can replace your 'standard' action with a second 'move' action. Source
PRPG Core Rulebook pg. 181
...
Move Action: A move action allows you to move up to your speed or perform an action that takes a similar amount of time. See Table 8–2 for other move actions.
You can take a move action in place of a standard action. If you move no actual distance in a round (commonly because you have swapped your move action for one or more equivalent actions), you can take one 5-foot step either before, during, or after the action.
... Your basic movement options are:
Move (Move action, Base Speed)
Double-Move (Move + Move action, Base Speed x2)
Run (Full Round action, Base Speed x4 in a straight line)
Actions in Combat which lists various actions. Out of combat PCs can just do it.
Pick up an item and Retrieve a stored item is a move action that provokes.
Drop an item is a free action that does not provoke.
If you walk up to a character (a move action) and hand an item to them (another move action to manipulate an object), you can put it in their empty hand or even bag for that matter. A standard action can indeed be used as a second move action (for any purpose that a move action qualifies for), so you can do this in one turn without issues. Depending on your natural reach, it may be possible for you to simply use a 5 foot step as a free action and a move action to hand your item to an ally that is as far away as 15 feet (assuming 10 feet of natural reach and 5 feet from the 5 foot step) while retaining your standard action for another purpose.
Alternatively, you could attempt to throw the object at the character or square. That sort of roll is typically an AC 5 roll (as if hitting an enemy without any AC bonuses and with a dexterity of zero), but you should remember to subtract attack penalties, improvised weapon penalties, (soft) cover penalties, and range penalties (bear in mind a dagger has a throwing range of 10 feet, for comparison, and there is a cumulative -2 attack penalty for each range increment beyond the first) accordingly. If you miss, I would randomly roll for which adjacent square it lands in (but an adjacent square should be within a normal character's natural reach to be picked up as a move action regardless). In this case, the object would simply land on the ground at the square, and the character could pick it up with a move action on his turn, unless he has Grab and Go or Nature's Weapons (if the thrown object qualifies). The character cannot catch the object if it is thrown at him unless the character has both the Deflect Arrows and Snatch Arrows feats (which, contrary to their names, can be used to catch any ranged weapon, even thrown weapons), though I would make an exception if the character in question readies an action to catch the object when it is thrown at him.
Somewhat esoterically, it is also possible to use Swipe and Stash to plant an object on an ally as a steal maneuver check. If the ally is willing I would forego all rolls and checks involved and assume automatic success, but this is only useful if you have a feat like Quick Steal (which allows you to perform the combat maneuver check as part of a charge attack or in the midst of a full attack) in order to perform the combat maneuver check without needing to dedicate an entire standard action to the endeavor (which would be inferior to simply using a move action to hand it to the character).
Depending on the circumstances, the player character in question could also simply use the Call Weapon spell to make the object an ally is holding fly into his grasp. The following is a rules gray area (and as such, table variation exists), but a character could target an object as an improvised melee weapon when using Call Weapon to pull it into his character's grasp regardless of whether or not it is a conventional melee weapon.
There is an awkward rules gray area, I should note, in that the rules do not state whether or not using a move action to hand someone an item would provoke an attack of opportunity. As such, there may be table variation on this matter, but I would rule that it does provoke an AoO as handing someone an item would be a sufficiently distracting act, much like picking up an item or sheathing a weapon would, as to cause you to divert your attention from the surrounding battle as you are forced to focus on properly handing over the item in question. Depending on which square you choose to walk to, however, it is of course possible to simply stand outside any enemy's threatened area as you proceed to hand an item, which would prevent any AoO.
It is also possible to use a stealth check as part of your movement and thus be unnoticed by foes (and therefore there is no attack of opportunity) while handing an item, though I would personally rule (this is another rules gray area where table variation may be expected) that this breaks stealth right after you hand over the item just as an attack roll would if the receiving character in question is not also in stealth or otherwise hidden from line of sight, since this would draw attention and cause you to be observed, unless you pass a Sleight of Hand check (opposed by the observer's Perception) to do so unnoticed. There would be no DC for successfully handing over the item to a willing ally, only an opposed check for not being observed. I would require being hidden from an observer (ie. a successful Stealth check) if you are attempting to hand an item over discreetly in combat by using Sleight of Hand. Handing over an item while invisible would not break stealth (as this is not actually an attack) but would make it obvious what square you were standing in as you handed over the item unless you also pass a Sleight of Hand check to do so unnoticed. Even if you pass the Sleight of Hand check, it would still be noticed that the receiver now has this item if an item ends up visibly in their hands (or otherwise visibly on their person) this way, just not how it happened.
I should also note that with Swipe and Stash, the Improved Steal feat would also cause you to avoid provoking an attack of opportunity while planting an item.
As for picking up an object from the ground, the rules are clear on that it does provoke an attack of opportunity.
rogue171 wrote: Yeah, this weirdly isn't even something I was *trying* to set up, we ended last session in the middle of combat and I just took a look at the map and went "wait..."
(For context, there's a group of rogues trying to steal an item the party's trying to protect.)
I guess move action makes sense? Apologies for rules ignorance, but could you replace a standard action with a second move action to move 30 ft and then hand something to another person on the same turn? Or is that not how it works?
Just remember, what you let the npcs do, the pcs can try to do.
Come to think of it, I would also personally rule that even without Stealth, using a Sleight of Hand check opposed by the observer's Perception is sufficient to pass an item to someone without provoking an attack of opportunity from the observer. He would still be able to reasonably deduce who gave that item (provided the item is visible to the observer), but he would miss the exact moment to take an attack of opportunity.
The game abstracts some things especially in combat. But in some cases, the abstraction leads to absurdities. When that happens the GM can and should step in and evaluate the situation based on real world mechanics and then translate that back into game terms.
The game allows each character to take their full turn of actions regardless of the other characters action. This usually does not create problems because all characters are acting simultaneously. That is not what is happening in this situation. In this situation each character is waiting for the previous character to complete their turn before they act. So, to solve the problem we suspend the rule that each character gets their full turns worth of actions.
If the characters are moving to the next character and handing the item off. I would simply count up the total distance a character can move in a turn including using their standard action for a move action and have that be the distance the item can travel. Assuming all the characters are human with nothing reducing their movement that would mean the item can travel 60 feet.
If the characters are throwing the item without moving it gets more complex. You can throw an improvised weapon a maximum of 50 feet (10 range increment x5). But characters with a high BAB can throw multiple items per turn. What I would do would be to take the number of attacks per round that one character gets and use that as a multiple of 50 to determine the maximum range. This option is going to be harder than the simple hand off so each character would need to make an attack roll against an AC 5 (credit to Tom Sampson) to get it to the next character and have the receiving character make a Dex roll of 10 to catch it.
All this is a house rule, but I think it is reasonable.
Azothath wrote: Actions in Combat which lists various actions. Out of combat PCs can just do it.
Pick up an item and Retrieve a stored item is a move action that provokes.
Drop an item is a free action that does not provoke.
RAW says it is just going to involve an adjacent someone expending a move action. I don't think it is really more complicated than that.
For distance you run into an attack/throw as a standard action (action economy). You can add a roll or check to hit touch AC and many objects have a 10ft range increment or receive at Dex/Rflx DC 5 to 10 plus any range mods. A toss to someone is easier to catch than a throw at someone.
If you go strictly by RAW that means you could line up enough characters and move the item to the next galaxy in a single turn. Now this would require a nearly infinite number of rogues, but that is still absurd.
Mysterious Stranger wrote: If you go strictly by RAW that means you could line up enough characters and move the item to the next galaxy in a single turn. Now this would require a nearly infinite number of rogues, but that is still absurd. It will require a nearly infinite number of necklaces of adaptation too.
:-)
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