Does a Fallen Champion Lose Their Champion's Reaction?

[Balkoth]

Say you had a Liberation Champion who suddenly decided to enslave someone and fell.

They lose anything that comes from their connection with their deity.

This definitely includes the holy trait, focus pool, and blessing of the devoted, but weirdly doesn't explicitly mention the champion reaction.

"The class features that you lose are determined by the GM, but they likely include your holy or unholy trait, your focus pool, and your blessing of the devoted."

Does that mean the fallen Liberation Champion who enslaved someone can still use Liberating Step?

[Squiggit]

I mean it says right there determined by the GM entirely-... yes if your GM wants you to and no if they don't is the only answer.

'likely include' is neither prescriptive nor exhaustive.

[steelhead]

Speaking as a GM, I would likely not let such an iconic reaction - which is essential to the liberator’s connection with their diety’s ideals - be used by a fallen champion. But as Squiggit said, TIFWIW. I’d be interested to hear what your GM says about it.

[Balkoth]

In this case I am the GM.

[steelhead]

lol. Then I’m interested in what you decide. Are you asking for a player or as an idea for an NPC?

[Dr. Frank Funkelstein]

i would vote no, it's atonement time

[Castilliano]

Yes, they lose it.
Champion's Reactions are marked as Divine and so is the Champion's Aura which they depend on. I'd cut all magical abilities as a rule of thumb.

For an NPC that I want to be an appropriate combat threat, I'd substitute their ability; maybe even fool them into thinking their original deity has forgiven them while another deity actually provides their abilities (which likely have a much different flavor the NPC has rationalized!)

In the long term, a PC kinda needs that reaction to balance out and I'd discuss with the player the various directions their PC could head and how that'd impact them mechanically. Retraining or rebuilding might be necessary, maybe even retiring.

Edit for clarity.

[Tridus]

Castilliano wrote:

Yes, they lose it.

Champion's Reactions are marked as Divine and so is the Champion's Aura which they depend on. I'd cut all magical abilities as a rule of thumb.

Agreed. All Champion Reactions have the Divine tag. They're magical abilities of a Divine nature. Divine tag says this:

Quote:

This magic comes from the divine tradition, drawing power from deities or similar sources. Anything with this trait is magical.

Since it's coming from a divine source and they've been cut off from their divine source until they atone, it doesn't work. Everything with the Divine tag would be impacted.

[Balkoth]

steelhead wrote:

lol. Then I’m interested in what you decide. Are you asking for a player or as an idea for an NPC?

For a player.

I'd lean towards it being gone, but was trying to figure out what a fallen Champion still keeps. Still a d10, martial AB progression, highest AC progression, and good saves class.

[Dr. Frank Funkelstein]

A fallen champion could select a new cause - you could handle that as retraining or just as the consequences of their actions. Maybe Obedience?

[Claxon]

I even like the idea that for an NPC they have the same mechanical action, but it's reflavored a bit to represent their fallen nature, their slide to wards evil presumably. Powered by a new deity who is interceding on their behalf to turn them down their path.

[Finoan]

Dr. Frank Funkelstein wrote:

i would vote no, it's atonement time

Or Retraining time. Pick a new Cause that does match what the character is wanting to do.

There isn't a good reason to have a Champion that is restricted from using their abilities long-term. For an NPC, just have the Champion be built to do what they are doing in the first place. For a PC or plot-important specific NPC that is going through a story arc, they can follow the same rules as for a PC - Atonement or Retraining.

It isn't good for the game balance to have a PC that isn't able to work at 100% effectiveness.