So I am thinking of taking Vasolidation class skill.
Vasodilation
2
Uncommon General Skill
Prerequisites trained in Medicine
Using the power of your own blood, you encourage increased blood flow to nourish damaged tissue or stifle the flow to clot wounds or prevent the spread of poison and disease. You no longer require a healer's toolkit to Administer First Aid, Treat Disease, Treat Poison, or Treat Wounds, though you take 1 damage each time you take one of these actions without the proper tools from the expenditure of your blood. You can't reduce or prevent this damage. You gain a +1 item bonus when performing these actions using your blood, which increases to +2 if you're a master in Medicine and +3 if you're legendary.
AP 213
I have Battle Medicine:
Battle Medicine
1
General Healing Manipulate Skill
Prerequisites trained in Medicine
Requirements You're holding or wearing a healer's toolkit.
You can patch up wounds, even in combat. Attempt a Medicine check with the same DC as for Treat Wounds and restore the corresponding amount of HP; this doesn't remove the wounded condition. As with Treat Wounds, you can attempt checks against higher DCs if you have the minimum proficiency rank. The target is then immune to your Battle Medicine for 1 day. This does not make them immune to, or otherwise count as, Treat Wounds.
PC1
I am not sure if I can utilize Battle Medicine with Vasolidation by RAW, because it isn't actually considered Treat Wounds. Does it, or is it supposed to, work together
Is this something that just hasn't been updated with the Remastered Edition of P2ed?
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1. No it doesn't.
2. No, it isn't supposed to. Feats that affect Treat Wounds not affecting Battle Medicine is the norm, and there's no reason to assume an unwritten exception was intended.
3. No, it isn't a remaster difference, Shades of Blood was post-remaster. No premaster version of vasodilation ever existed.
failed to realize post remaster start.
it just seems weird it isn't stated to work with battle medicine as it's entire point is so you can do these things without the need of a healer's kit by using your own blood as a workaround (causing yourself damage.)
It is weird, but it's entirely clear. Battle Medicine explicitly requires a Healers Toolkit and Vasodilation doesn't mention Battle Medicine so it doesn't apply there.
It's kind of a lame feat for that reason because if you're advancing Medicine skill proficiency, the odds are pretty good you took Battle Medicine. But if a lot of Treat Poison/Treat Disease are coming up, this gives you the item bonuses to those without having to buy a more expensive healers toolkit so it can save you some money (and if you do Battle Medicine with Assurance you can just use a basic toolkit anyway).
But it is kind of lame that it misses the second most common use of Medicine.
(and if you do Battle Medicine with Assurance you can just use a basic toolkit anyway).
Kind of but not really? Assurance will let you hit base DC at level 3, you hit DC 20 at level 6, DC 30 at level 14 and you never hit DC 40 (because assurance maxes out at 38: 10 + 20 level + 8 legendary).
It's ok for Treat Wounds if you have infinite time, it's terrible for Battle Medicine where you very likely need all the healing you can get right now. Using an action to heal someone 2d8 HP at level 5 is very questionable.
All that said, Vasodilation should absolutely apply to Battle Medicine.
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(and if you do Battle Medicine with Assurance you can just use a basic toolkit anyway).
Kind of but not really? Assurance will let you hit base DC at level 3, you hit DC 20 at level 6, DC 30 at level 14 and you never hit DC 40 (because assurance maxes out at 38: 10 + 20 level + 8 legendary).
It's ok for Treat Wounds if you have infinite time, it's terrible for Battle Medicine where you very likely need all the healing you can get right now. Using an action to heal someone 2d8 HP at level 5 is very questionable.
All that said, Vasodilation should absolutely apply to Battle Medicine.
Assurance is great for Battle Medicine because it never fails. When you can only do it to someone once per day/hour, failure is a problem and critical failure can outright kill someone who is dying when you do it.
There's times when you may not want to use it (like at level 5 on someone who can eat a crit failure safely), but at level 6 it's exactly the same amount of healing except without the chances of it going wrong.
But the point is that if you're using Assurance you don't get the item bonus, so you don't need a +3 boosting item for that since it doesn't matter. The feat OP was asking about gives you that bonus in a bunch of other cases, so you can save yourself some cash that way. It's not a good feat by any stretch of the imagination, but it would do that if you wanted to.
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As a GM, I would rule that Vasodilation applies to battle medicine because it applies to pretty much every other uses of medicine, and it's kind of lame to me that it doesn't work.
But strictly speaking, it doesn't work and there's no issue with it not working other than it doesn't narratively make sense to me.
I would say there’s an issue with it not working, namely that it makes what would already be a pretty bad to mediocre feat worse. No reason to stack restrictions on something that wasn’t that good to begin with.
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A feat doing what it says isn't "stacking restrictions". If you want to houserule a feat you don't think is strong enough, to buff it for your table, that's fine and good. If it will make for a better game for you and your players, with the kind of game you all enjoy, absolutely do it.
But framing the lack of a houserule like it's taking something away is pretty weird.
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This does not make them immune to, or otherwise count as, Treat Wounds.
It is pretty clear that Battle Medicine is not supposed to be the same as Treat Wounds. It just borrows the math for its scaling healing amounts and DC.
If something is supposed to apply to both Treat Wounds and Battle Medicine, then it had better say so rather explicitly.
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A feat doing what it says isn't "stacking restrictions". If you want to houserule a feat you don't think is strong enough, to buff it for your table, that's fine and good. If it will make for a better game for you and your players, with the kind of game you all enjoy, absolutely do it.
But framing the lack of a houserule like it's taking something away is pretty weird.
It’s a feat that’s purpose is to replace your medical kit (and later medicine skill items), yet does not work for one of the main uses of a medical kit. If you are a character with battle medicine (and that’s most characters with medicine), the feat does not do it’s job because you still have to lug around a kit. That’s a restriction, and an unnecessary one because it’s not like the feat wouldn’t even be unbalanced if it*did* just work for everything a medical kit does.
It’s bad design (with a trivial fix!) and should be recognized as such, regardless of whatever “framing” you want to put around it.
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As a GM, I would rule that Vasodilation applies to battle medicine because it applies to pretty much every other uses of medicine, and it's kind of lame to me that it doesn't work.
There's several uses of Medicine not covered by this, including things like Treat Condition, Resuscitate, and Legendary Medic (last one doesn't require Healers Tools, though the item bonus would be nice). Far as I can tell no Medicine action granted by a feat is covered by this feat.
Battle Medicine just happens to be the most common of those.
Medicine to recall knowledge or do forensic style checks are also excluded, though it's just the item bonus that matters in those cases rather than the tools.
Treat Wounds and Battle Medicine are the two most common ways Medicine is used, but its a skill with a lot of potential usages that are excluded.
It’s a feat that’s purpose is to replace your medical kit (and later medicine skill items), yet does not work for one of the main uses of a medical kit. If you are a character with battle medicine (and that’s most characters with medicine), the feat does not do it’s job because you still have to lug around a kit. That’s a restriction, and an unnecessary one because it’s not like the feat wouldn’t even be unbalanced if it*did* just work for everything a medical kit does.A feat doing what it says isn't "stacking restrictions". If you want to houserule a feat you don't think is strong enough, to buff it for your table, that's fine and good. If it will make for a better game for you and your players, with the kind of game you all enjoy, absolutely do it.
But framing the lack of a houserule like it's taking something away is pretty weird.
It's also giving a scaling item bonus from a low level skill feat and replacing a 19000g level 18 item if it applies to every usage of the skill, which I'm not sure any other skill feat does.
It’s bad design (with a trivial fix!) and should be recognized as such, regardless of whatever “framing” you want to put around it.
It's a rules thread, so people gave the rules answer. If you think it should be house ruled, great! Nothing wrong with that. But don't pretend that it's anything other than a house rule, no matter how obvious you think it should be.
It's also giving a scaling item bonus from a low level skill feat and replacing a 19000g level 18 item if it applies to every usage of the skill, which I'm not sure any other skill feat doesIt’s a feat that’s purpose is to replace your medical kit (and later medicine skill items), yet does not work for one of the main uses of a medical kit. If you are a character with battle medicine (and that’s most characters with medicine), the feat does not do it’s job because you still have to lug around a kit. That’s a restriction, and an unnecessary one because it’s not like the feat wouldn’t even be unbalanced if it*did* just work for everything a medical kit does.A feat doing what it says isn't "stacking restrictions". If you want to houserule a feat you don't think is strong enough, to buff it for your table, that's fine and good. If it will make for a better game for you and your players, with the kind of game you all enjoy, absolutely do it.
But framing the lack of a houserule like it's taking something away is pretty weird.
I’d put more weight on that if the medicine skill items weren’t so good as to be worth the GP even if you didn’t need the item bonus. I’d still seriously consider getting an essence charm (in medicine), marvelous medicines, or crown of stars even in an automated skill bonus game.