It’s what I was thinking likely would be the case.
Thanks, all!
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Just trying to figure out if it’s even possible within the confines of the game itself. As I don’t want to do things that would be wasteful for the groups time I’m with.
That’s what I was thinking.
I just kept getting caught up on the line of sight thing for ranged weapons (feel very silly for that.)
Ok.
Isaac,Scatter shot isn’t a save, it’s an attack role for the scatter shot which you do an attack roll for all in the cone and doesn’t missfire unless all the attack rolls misfire. I think you’re thinking dragons breath ammo which is also a cone but is a reflex save/1’s misfire. Quantum, so you are saying it would ignore total concealment because it’s a cone? As said I know you normally can’t shoot a ranged weapon if you don’t have line of sight. Which is why I am trying to figure out by the rules if firing as a cone would still be allowed.
Ok. I know with firearms, or really ranged weapons, you can’t shoot if you are blinded/it’s complete darkness where you can’t see because you can’t draw line of sight.
If that’s confusing. Can one make a cone scatter shot attack with a firearm if you are blinded/can’t see?
But, they do it all the time for errata to clarify things, such as when something like this issue gets brought up. But that is true on the part of no Alch Cart. Like below quote. Which like below says about no Alch Cart even for one-handed firearm. But still weird using stated wording for them both for only allowing once per round if you are allowed to do it free if you have both normally to get free reload with one-handed firearm.Also it let's one reload a round be done without using a cartridge reducing miss fire. So a miss fire only on a 1 on the first to third shot based on if they are two weapon fighting. It is also for the occasion that a one handed gunslinger needs to use a two handed firearm. That is true on not using Alch Cart. And for if you had a second gun and then dropped it so you could then be able to reload the main one-handed firearm. But it still seems weird to state it that way when they seem to try to avoid, or fix it when something like that comes up/being pointed out. Maybe because of this topic thread they may adjust that line. Which then that would make it clearer for those who think it doesn't work that RR and Alch Carts give one-handed firearms normal free action reloading.
But also, this was about trying to make more clear that RR & Alch Carts do give free action reloads and not about Lightning Reload being usless. I just want to make that clear. lqtm Also, "lqtm" = laugh(ing) quietly to myself.
True for the case if one-handed firearm reloading is supposed to be a free action normally if you have both RR and Alch Carts. It just seems odd to me that they wouldn't change that one line to only say two-handed firearms can only be free action reload once per round if you have both. Especially how then it would make it more useless with Musket Master's deed Fast Musket. Why I stated early firearms for this topic, because they clarified for Advanced Firearms with Rapid reload. But for Society Organized Play it is allowed to do free action normally if you have both RR(specific firearm) and Alch Carts?
That's a completely different sentence than the one for only being able to do it once per round as a free action.
It doesn't cost a grit to do it, though. You just need to have a grit.
It just seems odd that they wouldn't make the clarification when they call out having both still only allows once per round with the weapon, instead of saying, "If you have both you can only free action reload once per round with a two-handed firearm." Why not make the distinction for that part if it was meant to be done as a free action normally for one-handed firearms if you have both? I thought the double barrel reloading was stated that way because they don't want you doing the same free action twice in a row.
They have pretty much made clear that doing the same free action right after having just done that same free action is not allowed.
I have been looking for a better answer on this.
Rapid Reload and alchemical cartridges seem to give one-handed firearms the ability to be reloaded as a free action in RaW thought. However, Lightning Reload states that if you have both Rapid Reload and Alchemical Cartridges you can only reload a single barrel for free once. It seems to call out, based on the wording, that even having both they can only reload as a free action once. Lightning Reload (Ex): At 11th level, as long as the Gunslinger has at least 1 grit point, she can reload a single barrel of a one-handed or two-handed firearm as a swift action once per round. If she has the Rapid Reload feat or is using an alchemical cartridge (or both), she can reload a single barrel of the weapon as a free action each round. Furthermore, using this deed does not provoke attacks of opportunity. If it was meant to be done as a free action plainly if you have both Rapid Reload and Alchemical Cartridges, then why does the Lightning Reload deed say that even if you have both (Rapid Reload & Alchemical Cartridges,) you can only reload a single barrel of a one-handed firearm as a free action once per round? As it does not call out just two-handed, it just says the weapon, which implies one-handed & two-handed firearms. I'm honestly just trying to find out for Society Organized Play (but I didn't really see a rules section on Society, only in the normal Pathfinder boards here,) and it seems just enough contradictory to merit that you aren't supposed to be able to reload as a free action normally for early firearms (seeing how they specifically FAQ'ed Rapid Reload for Advanced Firearms.)
From everything that I have seen in the FAQ. It looks to me like Your off hand is in use any time you off hand is in use... If your GM allows it (this is dependent on how many free actions they allow and if you have quick draw,) you can do the below.
Your primary attacks are with the Bow so you don't take the attack penalty on the bow attacks, but you lose the bucklers AC bonus... but your off hand/non-bow attack is taking the -1 penalty to attack. Goes like this. 1st primary with bow
This is 7 (or 8 if you dropped bow for a two handed weapon at the end,) free actions before your next turn. Does that help? If you have more than two arms/hands I am pretty sure you no longer have the ability to TWF but instead now have to take multi-attack or something like that.....
I also agree with this, but only for an Evil or Chaotic Neutral alignment Character. I wouldn't imagine other alignments would be down for doing that. Maybe an excuse for CG alignment if no one else is around, but not while companions are actively around you. (compelled good or neutral characters though because of some mysterious reason where they get tempted.... like a drawback that sometimes kicks in, maybe. maybe. but that would really be pushing it.) Hilarious for a group of all CN and/or Evil characters. Everyone trying to do it at times... You get caught the other players take an item form you as punishment. One: Only small type items and no taking 10 or 20 on the SoH check obviously. Like daggers, rings, potions, headband, maybe a short sword or a belt. Belt could be pushing it as the time intensiveness of the nature of trying to get it off (maybe give a bonus to the companions' perception check if allowing that while companions are around when trying to get something like that.) That being for active group around you. If you are alone and find stuff, you could go after bigger things if you are able to put it somewhere, like a bag of holding for instance. But be careful with that as that is a bit more labor intensive(noises being heard.....,) and could increase your chances of being caught by a returning companion. Getting caught while you were by yourself can try to make an excuse with teh DM doing both your Bluff check if you are lying, or Diplomacy check if the item they see you are putting away you were actually going to let them know about, and their Sense Motive check and then the DM saying whether they believe you or not. Two: If you are doing this in a current and/or ended combat area where others are, they will probably start to wonder why you are staying so far back and not doing anything except huddling over by the dead bodies. Sure, there are ways to get around this. Say you are hurt and are searching the body for a heal potions. That being said because as players you don't have to tell someone how far down you are exactly in hit points (they could do a perception to see how you look,) but exact numbers is technically metagaming. When doing this type of thing there will be opposed perception checks, but honestly according to the written out rules of the books, that roll is to be done in secret by the GM. Three: If you get caught, something bad may happen to your character by the other players' characters... If that Character ends up being removed from play for some reason because of being caught. Would probably make a consequence be that you had to then play a character with the opposite alignment before you could go back to that alignment again. Gotta be consequences for having got caught...... Four: Completely viable thing to do by a CN or Evil alignment character. Five: Be far easier if the rest of the group headed on if you were still looking around for hidden rooms (this actually happened in a campaign I was in. A friend, who is quite more duplicitous than I, and I who were both CN alignments stayed back to finish looking around the room. Others went on to the next couple rooms. WE searched, found a secret room. We split everything between ourselves as it fit for the characters... lqtm.) Definite added elements to group dynamics and story within the group. Six: Already stated this but if they are around, definite perception checks, but done by the GM with penalties, because of all the stuff going on, or bonuses if nothing is going on or another players "Character" is suspicious. etc. Seven: Most metagaming would be frowned upon. If a player just starts going I am gonna stay with the Thief because the player knows he is stealing, something could happen to the metagaming character.
If you don't agree with allowing this, One thing you should do as a DM/GM. One: If you aren't cool with the idea, don't allow evil or chaotic neutral player characters. That would solve everything. As those types of alignments can do just that. Or just don't allow it even if you allow CN or Evil alignments Just some of my thoughts. and my apologies if it is a bit winded or confusing.
As a fighter when you gain a BCF you can switch out a previous BCF for another CF as long as it is not being used as a PreReq for another Feat. But also yeah, one could do that "Main hand Heavy Shield and use light weapon in off-hand, as you can Shield Bash with either primary or off-hand.
Lifesense don't help at all against a ghost. It is not a living creature.I addressed this before. A Dread Wraith should have no issue pinpointing living creatures in the range of its lifesense (they would still benefit from concealment however). But yes, it is a wrinkle if the ghost doesn't have such specials. I thought they have been talking about the "ghost" having lifesense to know where the player's character was when it attacked from a wall/floor?
True. I guess what I should have said is "knowing target is there or sense that spot" as several "sensing" abilities/feats and someone telling you, allow you to know the target is there. Quickdraw? Where we're going we don't need... Quickdraw.
In the spirit of not starting a forum flame war, can you please link to rules to define "The Conditions under which you will take it" ? I think he is talking about the part where you are saying "If a GM doesn't automatically interpret you saying "when X happens" as "when my character notices X happening", or make you rephrase it as such, then that is just bad GMing." Because if one says "when he attacks me" it means "When he attacks me" and you are saying that a GM should switch what you are saying to "When I see him attack me" or ask you to rephrase the readied, but doesn't is bad GMing. The issue with that is the readied action condition is stated "When he attacks me" and you are saying that the GM should just change that or ask you to change that, and if he doesn't it's bad GMing. When the condition is being said. "When he attacks me" which is a condition to take the readied action. To be quite honest the GM doing whatever he wants is within the confines of the game because the game allows the GM to do whatever he wants, viewed as correct etiquette or not. Now a Good GM will say, "Well this is happening because that's what I want to happen." in a calm, nice voice, and with a gentle smile. A Bad GM will say, "This is happening because I want it to. MWUUUAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" while twirling his handle bar mustache (imaginary or not,)and then you and the rest of the players have to find a way to vanquish the evil GM where he stands.
Yeah, TGMaxMaxer, I just looked at the class ability. The issue I had is if it is a full wall blocking line of sight. I guess the issue stems from how are you directing the ricochets. Actually.... I just answered my own question in my head while typing this. lol. Obviously, you have to be able to "see" somewhat, line of sight, the target (intended square/5foot box for an invisible target.) Similar to the Ricochet Shot grit feat for Gunslingers. I apologize on that. lol
A Two-weapon Warrior does not NEED to have Two-weapon Fighting as a feat to use his abilities. All the class abilities of the Two-weapon Warrior archtype can be used without the use of the Two-weapon Fighting Feat. You used Two-weapon Warrior as part of a rant about a class having abilities without having a feat free that makes them do what they are supposed to do. The fact is that a Two-weapon Warrior does not NEED to have Two-weapon fighting Feat to use it's abilities, unlike the other ones you are saying. Pretty much I was informing you that you used an archtype class, to prove a point, that actually doesn't lend anything to your argument compared to the other ones that do. It's quite funny that you don't see that.
and a Two-weapon Warrior CAN use his abilities without having Two-weapon Fighting feat.
As a fighter when you gain a BCF you can switch out a previous BCF for another CF as long as it is not being used as a PreReq for another Feat.
@Komoda, but isn't that ability just so you can make that hit surface the new origin square of the attack? But could you do so if you had three iterative attacks? a to b to c when there is blocking material between A & C but not between A & B and B & C? I am guessing not because line of sight issues? or that the person would still get cover but you could still hit them? but the OP's Q made me think about it.
If they don't don't mind having the accuracy of a commoner, yes. True that they still have some negatives to attack if they don't have Two-weapon Fighting Feat but they can still do it and are better at it than someone who doesn't have Two-weapon fighting feat at all because of their class abilities. The Shield Champion can't use at all it's class ability of having Shield Master feat unless it meets the PreReqs of it. Which can be done by using Martial Flexibility timed duration class ability, or by getting the PreReqed feats through actual feat progression by level or Bonus Combat Feat class ability.
So honestly the Two-weapon Fighter is the exact opposite to what you were trying to make a point for.
The two-weapon fighter's abilities aren't tied to having two-weapon fighting feat as a PreReq. If anything, the Two Weapon fighter actually has an up on two weapon fighting as they don't need to have two-weapon fighting to do any of their exchanged class abilities.
You stated something about a class not having a feat to do something that anyone can basically do. I stated a reason why they don't have the feat free. I didn't have to elaborate anything more to be quite frank about it.
For number 4 I would agree with Driver_325yards
Something that caught my attention though is: How does the Bashing quality work with the Throw Shield class ability?
Two things. 1. According to the slots section for items there is only one slot for a shield. Doesn't that mean you can only wield one shield? So, you wouldn't be able to hold two shields at the same time. 2. Shield bashing can be done as off hand or primary. FAQ http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1fm#v5748eaic9r3w
My last thing on my last comment brings a thought to me. Seeing how Throw Shield is not a ranged Shield Bash according to the ability in ACG. The bashing quality's last statement about the shield is considered a +1 weapon when being used to "bash" doesn't apply to a thrown shield used with the Throw Shield class ability. But does the increased size damage still work with a thrown shield? I think it does. I know that shield spikes do as they are specifically mentioned in the Throw Shield class ability. But does the increased size damage from Bashing quality work with a thrown shield with the Throw Shield class ability? This might just be me reading into it too much. but even so it would just go to more to the bad wording/writing of the ACG.
Well, Two-Weapon Warrior comes to mind. All of their abilities revolve around two-weapon fighting; but they don't actually get any TWF feats as bonuses at all. All their class abilities rely on two-weapon fighting, but you must take the feats as either fighter bonus feats or normal feats. So the Shield Champion needs to take Shield Slam in order to use his Shield Mastery which is given as a bonus. So what? A Roughrider Fighter needs to provide their own mount. They don't get a free mount like Cavaliers despite the archetype being designed around mounted combat. What about the Savage Warrior archetype? It revolves around natural weapons which you must provide either by race or by some other class's ability (ie. Druid). Not every archetype is going to hand you everything on a silver platter; some require you to BYOB. We're used to bonus feats being granted "without prerequisites", but in this case, they apparently determined that the combination was too strong for their view of the class and, so, required you to meet the prereqs in order to get the bonus feat; in essence, you're only saving a feat slot, not the necessity to satisfy the prereqs. any one can two weapon fight without having two weapon fighting feat. All TWF feat does is improve your ability to fight dual wielding.
Also, the 7th level ability with shield throw doesn't have anything to do with shield Slam feat. You can't make sunder, bull rush, trip and such normally as a ranged attack. You can with normal melee attacks. This ability allows you to do so as a ranged attack instead of as a melee one. Shield slam allows you to do a bull rush in addition to the shield bash attack you did. Normally you could only bull rush in place of a melee attack, but not melee shield bash attack and get the bull rush. The 7th level ability allows you to be able to do Bull rush and the such as the ranged attack.
Being able to throw your shield with the throw shield doesn't negate the hindrances you get with fighting with your shield. You are still using your shield to attack. Throw Shield ability allows you to throw your shield. It does damage like Shield bash but it isn't a shield bash attack (according to how it is written in ACG.)
That FAQ I didn't see. I was looking for somehting and this is one of the ones that popped up.I don't really look at dates so I didn't know it was from that long ago. I am gonna alter my response to show what you posted. ={D> Thanks. And i missed the one where the guy had said FAQ lol, there was a lot to read and I missed his and like the three or four around it. It also says in the FAQ that you don't get bonus skill points. A lot to read through and sometimes we miss things. Once again, thanks for pointing that out. i really should start looking at dates and be more careful with making sure I read all the responses.
The bonus languages "edit" I was informed by the kindly Gent below has been amended as per the link he showed and in which I am putting here now http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1fm#v5748eaic9qos The Headband hardcodes the specific skill (the bonus skill points you get from having a now higher Intelligence, which are bonus skills talked about on pg.555,) so it's easier to keep the listing of your now new skill points and don't have points in a bunch of different skills that you would then need to keep track of. Spells are easy with being removed so there is no reason to keep them jotted down. You lose a spell slot for a spell level, you choose a slot from that spell level's slot for the spells you still have available to cast. It really isn't that hard to understand.
It's correct. But you would have to be a lvl 16 Human Fighter though to get this feat and have already taken Martial Versatility.
All in all, it would come down to what your DM decides on this one. If I were to DM I would allow Martial Mastery to work with more than one weapon group though because you would have to waste a feat spot to get it to work without negatives and the fact that you would need to be a level 16 human fighter and have already taken at least three other feats to even use it with proficiency.
Page 101 of Ultimate Combat has a table for the DCs of Firearms. I think it's for use when the GM introduces firearms and the players don't have Gunsmith Feat yet. As Gunsmith feat allows you to make and fix firearms with no roll and same for ammo (Alchemical Cartridges you need 1 point in the Craft (alchemy) skill, though.)
@ArmouredMonk13 - You don't pick a specific weapon with Snap Shot, though. It just says with a Ranged weapon that you have Weapon focus with.
@Nate Lange - That was my thinking on it. I was wondering what others would say and I think it may be a split between "it would work" or "you would need to take MV on Snap Shot(SH)" but if it is deemed I would need MV on SH. I would just want to take Martial Mastery (MM) then, in that case. I still want to know what others think on that interactivity on those feats. @Vritra Not if I want to use a combination of three or more Firearms.
I was actually wondering about something with Martial Versatility/Mastery. Does anyone knows if Martial Versatility used on Weapon Focus (Pistol) to make it work with all firearms would then allow Snap Shot (from Ultimate Combat,) to be used with all firearms? Snap Shot (Combat) With a ranged weapon, you can take advantage of any opening in your opponent’s defenses. Prerequisite: Dex 13, Point-Blank Shot, Rapid Shot, Weapon Focus, base attack bonus +6. Benefit: While wielding a ranged weapon with which you have Weapon Focus, you threaten squares within 5 feet of you. You can make attacks of opportunity with that ranged weapon. You do not provoke attacks of opportunity when making a ranged attack as an attack of opportunity. Normal: While wielding a ranged weapon, you threaten no squares and can make no attacks of opportunity with that weapon.
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