When does a character with a spellcasting archetype gain the ability to use the cast a spell activation of items like scrolls, etc.?
In the Spellcasting Archetypes general rules it says, "A spellcasting archetype allows you to use scrolls, staves, and wands in the same way that a member of a spellcasting class can."
Does this kick in once you have taken the dedication feat or does it kick in when you take the Basic Spellcasting feat?
For example, the Bard Dedication feat says, "You gain the Cast a Spell activity." It does not mention activating scrolls with it.
The Basic Bard Spellcasting feat says, "You gain the basic spellcasting benefits." It seems possible that this is where the ability to activate scrolls begins.
Is the ability to activate scrolls part of the Dedication feat or does it wait for the Basic Spellcasting feat?
In general, whenever you gain the cast a spell activity (other than focus spells and innate spells, IIRC) from a class or archetype you can use that action to activate magic items that require it. In most cases, the dedication feat for the spellcasting archetype grants the ability to use cantrips with the cast a spell activity; which means you can then use the indicated items.
However, some magic items (such as scrolls) also require that the spell be on the list that the character has access to through their class and/or archetype. Rules for scrolls.
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It is still very much ambiguous despite the recent errata.
The errata mentions that the previous wording was too limited, but that is in regards to the specific items that it allowed activation of. Previously it listed out 'scrolls', 'wands', and 'staves' specifically and didn't include other Cast a Spell activate items such as 'spellhearts'.
The ambiguity comes from "the spellcasting ability from a spellcasting archetype" being undefined. Many people will take that to mean the dedication feat because it gives you the ability to cast cantrips. But no rule ever actually says this. It can just as validly mean the Basic Spellcasting feat because it has a name that closely matches the wording of the general rule for spellcasting archetypes.
Also, the rule preventing characters that have only Focus Spells from using Cast a Spell activation items, Non-Spellcasters with Focus Spells, mentions that game design reason for that is because the character does not have Spell Slots. Which indicates that Cantrips alone and no Spell Slots (such as what you have with only the Spellcasting dedication feat) would also not qualify.
So you are still going to have to check with your table for how you want to play the game rather than relying on RAW. The RAW is ambiguous.
Imo, it has to be the base Dedication feat that unlocks Cast a Spell items.
The wording on the follow up "Basic Spellcasting Benefits" feat is limited and specific. It only grants those low level daily spell slots, and nothing else.
That means the less specific "spellcasting ability" from the Dedication feat does RaW have to be where that is located thanks to process of elimination.
(it's also direct text RaW, but saying that first can cause backlash reactions)
... The spellcasting ability from a spellcasting archetype also allows you to use Cast a Spell activations of items (such as scrolls, staves, and wands).
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I'm pretty sure it's the Dedication now. Both because the already cited line about the archetype granting access to scrolls/staves/wands didn't used to exist, but also because before that changed, PFS had a ruling that said it was Basic Spellcasting Benefits that granted it.
That ruling was removed when this wording changed. So it seems to me like Paizo clarified it with the intent that it's the Dedication by deliberately not adopting the PFS wording, and PFS dropped their ruling when the base rule changed.
Of course, that doesn't necessarily mean it actually works for everything listed. Staves have added requirements:
You can Cast a Spell from a staff only if you have that spell on your spell list, are able to cast spells of the appropriate rank or higher,
So for example a class with no spellcasting that takes a spellcasting Dedication feat can't actually cast anything of rank 1 or higher from a staff because they have no spell slots. They also can't charge the staff since that's also based on spell slots. It reads like casting a cantrip from it should work since you can do that even in a staff with 0 charges, as long as the cantrips are on the spell list the archetype is giving you.
Thank you for the quick and informative responses. This is in regard to a PFS Eldritch Trickster Rogue who just made 2nd level. With the Magical Trickster feat, available at 2nd level, it becomes possible to gain sneak attack damage with spell attacks that target AC, so my two cantrips will be spells of that kind and I'm planning on getting some items that allow a casting of such spells, such as a wand or scrolls.
Wands and scrolls require the cast a spell activity, which comes with the Bard dedication feat. Until reaching 4th level and the ability to cast 1st rank spells, getting a few scrolls can offer some extra options for the rogue. Thanks again.
What's the thought on Palatine Detective Investigator archetype?
Palatine Detective only ever grants Innate Spells, if memory serves, and the rules are clear that neither those nor Focus Spells allow you to use Wands/Scrolls/Staves.
Palatine Detective only ever grants Innate Spells, if memory serves, and the rules are clear that neither those nor Focus Spells allow you to use Wands/Scrolls/Staves.
Yeah just checked it out too to make sure, so I'll confirm that. To be fair though you're an investigator. You can afford to get the trick magic item skill feat pretty easily.