Unconscious = Automatically Willing Target; what happens if regain consciousness?

[Barachiel Shina]

We all know by now that RAW an unconscious target is considered "Willing" for spells that require a target to be Willing.

So now we go to the spell MARIONETTE POSSESSION

My players have decided to knock their targets out with nonlethal damage, use Marionette Possession on the body, then heal the body back up to consciousness. Now that the body/original creature is conscious, does the spell effect end because they're conscious and now unwilling? Or does the spell stay in effect?

Also what's the Will save (see text) for? I'm guessing maybe it's to allow someone who is possessed the ability to kick the caster out.

Who helped write this book/spell? Can they answer their intent if I find and ask them directly?

[Diego Rossi]

There is no rule about what happens if a willing target becomes unwilling in the hardbound rulebooks.
There are a few rules about possession in Pathfiner 28, rewritten in Archive of Nethys.

Generally, spells that require a willing target are instantaneous, so this one is an outlier.
I think that once you have "agreed" to be a willing target, changing your idea will not end the spell.
YMMV.

[Azothath]

see your GM as it is undefined in RAW and a matter of Fair Play in a Game.

I would suspect that most GMs would give the now conscious person a save versus an ongoing spell and note the chaotic evil behavior for each involved player.

[TriOmegaZero]

Check with your players and see if they are okay with the villians knocking them unconscious and casting spells on their 'willing' characters.

[Azothath]

TriOmegaZero wrote:

Check with your players and see if they are okay with the villians knocking them unconscious and casting spells on their 'willing' characters.

I don't see the problem... lahhh la lah laaa... *pop*

[Mysterious Stranger]

The rule for unconscious targets automatically being willing is from the targeting rules. Basically, these spells only work if the subject makes no effort to avoid the spell. If you are unconscious, you cannot avoid the spell.

Normally a willing target would voluntarily fail the save, and allow the spell to affect them. This is what happens when you cast a cure spell on an ally. But nothing in the rules state an unconscious target automatically fails a will save. Since Marionette Possession allows for a will save even an unconscious target still gets a will save to avoid the spell.

Once the target fails the save it stays up until the duration runs out or the caster returns to his body.

[Claxon]

I'm with Mysterious Stranger.

The way I'd run it as a GM is that the target still makes a will save.

You wouldn't let poison simply affect someone because they're unconscious would you? You don't ignore a save because someone is unconscious, only the targeting portion. So an enemy can be "willing" because they're unconscious but that doesn't mean they don't get a save.

One thing to remember though, the body is unconscious because of HP. If you are successful (the target fails their save) you will be in an unconscious body that will need to be healed.

[Diego Rossi]

I agree with Mysterious Stranger and Claxon, being a willing target because you are unconscious only matters for the targeting part, not for the Will save. The target still gets to roll a save to resist a spell.