Duration of Sickened

[The Total Package]

For the following spell would the duration of the sickened condition persist longer than "until the end of your next turn"?

Final Fate of the Locust Host
Spell 7
Rare
Concentrate
Incarnate
Manipulate
Mythic
Traditions arcane, divine, occult, primal

Range 500 feet

Duration until the end of your next turn

You conjure the rotting corpse of Deskari, previously Lord of the Locust Hosts, to the battlefield. Deskari’s corpse occupies the space of a Gargantuan creature. The corpse is riddled with vermin, including countless locusts, whose collective movement grants the corpse a Speed of 60 feet and a fly Speed of 60 feet.

Arrive Behold the Rotten Lord Deskari’s corpse is unspeakably foul, emitting a putrid stench, and constantly twitches thanks to the movement of the millions of insects and vermin that consume it. A loud, persistent buzzing is created by the clouds of locusts surrounding it like a haze. Each living enemy creature within a 60-foot emanation must attempt a Fortitude save with the following effects.

Critical Success The creature is unaffected.

Success The creature is sickened 2.

Failure The creature is sickened 3 and deafened for the duration.

Critical Failure The creature is sickened 4, stunned 1, and deafened for the duration.

Depart (poison) Feast of the Locust Host The millions of insects and vermin feasting on Deskari pour out of its corpse and surge across the battlefield, consuming your enemies. This swarm deals 5d8 piercing damage and 5d8 poison damage to enemy creatures in a 60-foot emanation with a basic Reflex save. A creature that critically fails is additionally drained 2.

[The Raven Black]

Fail and Crit fail results should be worse than Success, so I guess the Sickened for these do not have a duration either and only the Deafened has one.

Could have been written a bit clearer though.

IMO Sickened here would last as long as it takes to get rid of the condition the usual way.

[Lia Wynn]

The duration on this spell, and every Incarnate spell, is always 'until the end of your next turn.' This is because when you finish the casting, it arrives - and then *it* does something.

At the end of your next turn, the spell ends, and *it* departs, doing something as it does so.

Your spell just summons it. Your spell doesn't do anything else. It does those other things, and they expire as is normal.

It works the same with any summon. If you summon a viper at low level, and it bites some goblin and poisons it, and you don't sustain the summon the next round, the poison doesn't go away on its own.

[Claxon]

Yeah, the deafened part will end when the summon disappears.

To get rid of sickened, it will go away the way any other sicken affect will. Which is by retching to reduce the sickened status (on a successful save).

This is quite an effective spell because you either need to waste actions retching, or attempt actions with a sizable penalty.

[NorrKnekten]

This is also grammatically correct that the duration when written like this only applies to element to the left of it, as usual for post-modifiers.

Otherwise we do know that Conditions come in two forms, Those that require a duration, and those that do not(because they already have durations, reduction or specified ways to remove them).

The latter category of conditions (Frighten,Sickened,Controlled,Doomed and Drained) are inherently decoupled from the spells duration(unless otherwise stated) and thus are non-magical effects that last until removed through their normal means, You also cannot remove them with dispel magic.

Player Core pg. 302 2.0 "Spells: Durations" wrote:

Some spells have effects that remain even after the spell's magic is gone. Any ongoing effect that isn't part of the spell's duration entry isn't magical. For instance, a spell that creates a brief, loud sound might deafen someone for a time, even permanently. This deafness couldn't be counteracted because it is not itself magical (though it might be cured by other magic, such as sound body).

[Finoan]

Most of us will extrapolate from the clarifications for durations of effects caused by afflictions to also apply to durations of effects caused by spells. Because both have nearly the same rules concept - that conditions caused may or may not persist beyond the affliction/spell duration. NorrKnekten just quoted the one for spells, and the one for afflictions is similar.

The clarification given is:

FAQ Core Rulebook 4th printing clarifications wrote:

Page 458 (Clarification): If an affliction makes me enfeebled 1 without listing a duration and the affliction ends, am I enfeebled forever?

The rules on Conditions from Afflictions note that a condition can last for a longer duration that the affliction that caused it, using drained as an example. There are three categories of effects from afflictions here.

1 Immediate effects like damage happen as soon as you reach the stage.
2 Conditions that have a way to end them by default last for their normal duration. This includes conditions like drained, frightened, persistent damage, and sickened.
3 Conditions that always need to include a duration because they don’t have a normal way to recover from them—such as clumsy or paralyzed—last as long as the stage of the affliction on which they appear. This also applies to effects that are ongoing but specific to the affliction rather than being defined conditions, such as a penalty to certain rolls.

Applying that to this spell means that the deafened effect would end with the spell's duration since deafened does not have a natural way of auto-removal. The Sickened condition would remain beyond the duration of the spell because it does have a natural way of auto-removal (Retching).

[NorrKnekten]

I believe its not just extrapolation. Since whenever these (enfeebled,clumsy,deafened,stupified) has shown up without a duration we have previously recieved answers that these are supposed to come with a duration. Such as the discussions regarding the sandwolf, basilisk and cockatrice which all had this issue of writers forgetting to add a duration onto stupified/slowed respectively.

That also fits neatly into the idea that durations also include things that ends when a certain condition is fullfilled, Such as a condition's value becoming 0.

[Deriven Firelion]

That's a pretty brutal spell.

[Claxon]

Deriven Firelion wrote:

That's a pretty brutal spell.

Yep, sickened 2 even on a successful save is tough. Gods help you if you fail or crit fail.

But, it is also a Rare and Mythic spell (requiring the expenditure of a mythic point to cast).