Also note that those "professions" are indications for roleplaying. I've seen [adorable child] as a description. It's to give you a quick indication of their character, should anyone want to interact with them. It saves the author word count while still injecting character. Cthulhu could be [Unknowable entity, horror from beyond the stars], for example.
The number is indeed their level. While NPCs don't have stats like PCs do, a level is still a good indication of their ballpark power level. I don't know the adventure, but Architect 3 says to me a more experienced commoner, but not necessarily amazing at their job.
Say someone wants to cast Charm on Derrol. I assume they don't have a statblock. You can grab a level 3 NPC and have a rough idea of what their Will save would be.
It's also there to help you determine the soul / power level of actions those NPCs take.
The book says something to the effect of NPC actions in one area of expertise do *not* match others, so you will be likely inventing your own numbers for off-job tasks.
If an NPC is a "Weaponsmith 6" and you as a GM need to know invent what kind of rolls they could perform, you know that Level 6 is appropriate for a Crafting check.
But, you are then guessing at their "other levels" if such things are needed, like their ability to Strike w/ their weapons being Level -2 behind, and perhaps they may have a L -4 Medicine ability due to accidents in the forge, etc.
In pathfinder, people are not at all equal to each other, and being able to see (their best) level number, even when it's not a PC class, does help a lot when filling in those blanks.
Yeah, that kind of NPC description is....meaningless is the right word by it conveys a lot less meaning than you might think.
The number is indicative of the NPCs level. But NPCs aren't built the way PCs are. And non-combat NPCs might be built very differently from the waya PC would.
I can't recall the specifics, but an NPC "blacksmith 3" might actually be a master when it comes to crafting but only a level 3 combat threat. Or it might be that it's an blacksmith who's an expert in crafting but only a level 1 combat threat. Forget which way the rules suggest to run it, but something along those lines.
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The profession, such as "shipwright" is for roleplaying and the level, such as "4," is the character's level for combat and DCs. NPCs often have higher skill bonuses and skill feats than their level indicates, but if they are forced into a fight, the level will determine their AC, attack bonus, saving throws, and hit points.
I don't know which module Birger Frodeson (shipwright 4) is from, but imagine the party is doing a Gather Information diplomacy activity in a port town and the GM wants to roleplay a conversation rather than simply narrate a fact. The GM says, "You encounter a middled-aged human in well-kept worksman clothes. He introduces himself as Birger Frodeson." The description "shipwright 4" is enough to tell that he is a craftsman rather than a laborer and level 4 means that he would reasonably prosperous. If asked about the docks, he would know about the ships, because he is interested in the different designs of ships and has performed repairs on some of them, but not much about their crew or cargo.
And then sometimes, the GM needs to know more. Perhaps the PC talking with Birger Frodeson makes a Request of him. Knowing that Frodeson is 4th level, the GM looks at the DCs By Level Table and sees that the default DC for 4th level is DC 19. Thus, the PC has to roll a DC 19 Diplomacy check to persuade Birger Frodeson to follow the request.
And on rare occasions, the unstatted NPC will need a stat block. The PCs persuade Birger Frodeson to lead them to the ship Jolly Folly, but unknown to him it is a pirate ship in disguise, the party figures this out, and poor Frodeson is caught in a fight. Then the GM opens his copy of NPC Core or goes to the Archives of Nethys NPC Creature Families page and tries to find an NPC similiar to a 4th-level shipwright. The Artisans family has a Smith 3, and the Elite template quickly converts that to Elite Smith 4. Now Birger Frodeson can defend himself with smith abilities.
Finally, crazy GMs like me will sometimes decide to promote an unstatted NPC into a recurring ally of the party and build an custom stat block for him. I would look at the stat blocks of several similar NPCs and combine them into a 4th-level NPC with strong skills in ship building and repair.
The line "Birger Frodeson (shipwright 4)" is telling the GM that they probably won't need any details about this character, but if they do, here is a starting point.
Is there a specific rule that states that the level number is for their potential combat stats? I always understood it to be a means of estimating their non-combat skill abilities (where appropriate; a level 8 soldier is probably pretty capable in combat). An 18th-level baker would likely be renowned across the planes for their high level of skill, for example.
I also recall it being said that the combat stats are divorced from their non-combat stats. For example, said baker might only pose as a 5th-level threat to an adventuring party when they leave an undeserved scathing review.
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I've never seen a formal rule in 2e explaining what Paizo means when they put a level in their short descriptions for NPCs without stat blocks.
Folks talking about different level challenges in and out of combat are overcomplicating things by applying a rule specifically for stat blocks like this one from GMG/NPC Core. This has only ever been stated to apply to stat blocks and not one line NPC descriptions.
The level listed on an NPC’s stat block is their level assuming they’re used in combat; they should be able to hold their own as well as any other creature of that level. But many of these NPCs are primarily noncombatants who are much more skilled in their occupation than they ever would be in combat. To that end, those specialist NPCs’ entries also mention a higher level that you would use when the PCs have to compete against them in their area of expertise.
On the few occasions where I've seen them give a stat block for an NPC that previously had a one line description, the stat block was at the level previously described.
Mathmuse's post is excellent and I intend to save it for anytime I see someone else confused by Paizo's NPC descriptions.
I think the listed level number is only to show the "best level" comparison for the NPC.
So if we see a "Baker 18," then we can assume 18 is their best level, and will need to look at other context clues to make up other unlisted levels/numbers, like fighting proficiency, etc.
As a point of reference, doing L20 Earn Income jobs is considered to be a ~godly tier of ability. The listed example of an L20 Earn Income task is literally going into a divine realm to put on a show, with a big G God mayhaps in attendance amongst the outsiders. Oh, and the L 16 character succeeded this task on an 11 roll.
Lem is a 16th-level bard and legendary with his flute. He has a Performance modifier of +31 with his enchanted flute. With 30 days of downtime ahead of him, Lem wonders if he can find something that might excite him more than performing in front of a bunch of stuffy nobles. He finds a momentous offer indeed—a performance in a celestial realm, and Lem's patron goddess Shelyn might even be in attendance! This is a 20th-level task, and the GM secretly sets the DC at 40.
Lem rolls an 11 on his Performance check for a result of 42. Success! The engagement lasts for a week, and at the end, the grateful celestials present Lem with a beautiful living diamond rose in constant bloom worth 1,400 gold pieces (200 gp per day for 7 days).
With 23 days of downtime left, Lem accepts a 14th-level task performing at a prestigious bardic college for members of a royal court. The GM secretly sets the DC at 32, and Lem critically succeeds, earning 28 gp per day for a total of 644 gp. Between the two performances, Lem has earned just over 2,000 gold pieces during his downtime—though he's not sure he'll ever sell that rose.
So that L 18 Baker can make some crazy bread.
Very much up to the GM to decide how much of a level gap the L 18 baking skill would translate into other categories though.
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Is there a specific rule that states that the level number is for their potential combat stats? I always understood it to be a means of estimating their non-combat skill abilities (where appropriate; a level 8 soldier is probably pretty capable in combat). An 18th-level baker would likely be renowned across the planes for their high level of skill, for example.
I also recall it being said that the combat stats are divorced from their non-combat stats. For example, said baker might only pose as a 5th-level threat to an adventuring party when they leave an undeserved scathing review.
The level number on an NPC is their combat level. A lot of NPC stat blocks have an extra line about their non-combat level. For example, the 3rd-level Smith says, "Smithing Specialist For encounters involving smithing or other crafting tasks, the smith is a 6th-level challenge." If the party fights raiders alongside the smith, treat the smith as level 3. If the party wants to commission a 5th-level item from the smith, treat him as level 6.
This stat block showed up in my campaign, because Spoken in the Song Wind features NPC Goana (LG female halfling woodcarver 3) on page 52. But on the next page, it says, "If you need statistics for Goana, use those of a halfling smith (Gamemastery Guide 204, 245). I swapped out the smith's light hammer for a woodcarver's carving knife.
The smith has 50 hp, which according to GM CoreTable 2–7: Hit Points would be high for a 3rd-level monster, but really that smith is a 6th-level character with little combat experience, so the smith is tough against damage but weak at dishing out damage.
An 18th-level baker that would be only a 5th-level threat in combat would be called "baker 5." A character actually called "baker 18" would be either a retired adventurer who took up baking, a hidden god of baking, or an eccentric baker who invented a very effective combat pie throw.
Ugh, that is kinda backwards, and it kinda breaks a lot of pf2, but text is text.
I honestly do not think the big Absalom book was written with the idea of the level number being the level for combat stats.
There's an index of NPC entries with things like "Level 8 Child | Dericia Foss " or for oddball ~professions like "Level 13 Kite Enthusiast"
Even more nonsensical, there are example "Merchant Level x" for 1-19, but the example "Pathfinder Level x" maxes out at L 15.
So if that text of NPC core is correct, and if the level number is specifically for combat stats, then it's cannon that Absalom Pathfinders are rather pathetic, and would loose fights vs quite a number of non-combat ~professionals. Some Painters, "Children", etc.
Hell, those Level 6 Beggars could trounce a large swath of professional fighters/combatants, who are, ya know, being paid money for their combat ability.
That kinda throws narrative cohesion out the bloody window.
Really surprised that line is in the NPC core, to be honest. Yikes.
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Likely, there is a misunderstanding between the people writing the text and how it's used/meant to be used.
When the character appears in the adventure, it should probably be pretty clear if they should be a powerful combatant.
If I see "18th level baker" I'm going to process that as being level 18 for baking related things, and some lower level for combat stuff.
It seems likely that every GM will just need to evaluate on their own what an NPC should be capable of...which kind of sucks.
If we could have standardized around writing NPCs as "X level profession/X level combat", for example 18 baker/3 combatant, it would have been nice.
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Or maybe the misunderstanding is the people reading the text out of context of the books they are written.
For example, if you look at Derica Foss's entry in the Absalom book, you'll discover she is a 17-year-old who is an apprentice to a level 18 wizard. Level 8 seems like a reasonable number for someone who is apprenticed to a powerful wizard in fantasy New York. So a lot more than a child. Similarly, Emir Thalzar the Kite Enthusiast is a level 13 fighter, Qadiran diplomat, and former director of army intelligence for Kelesh. Hardly just a Kite Enthusiast.
Curse you Norr for being faster than me.
A character actually called "baker 18" would be ... an eccentric baker who invented a very effective combat pie throw.
LOL! Or perhaps he's an alien clown from outerspace?
There's an index of NPC entries with things like "Level 8 Child | Dericia Foss " or for oddball ~professions like "Level 13 Kite Enthusiast"
Have you not seen Home Alone? Children can absolutely hold their own against enterprising murder hobos!
There's a lot of things you might find yourself needing a target number for that level can help inform. Skill modifiers, the will DC if the PCs try and coerce the NPC, the level of items they sell, the level of the security the shop has.... Heck, you might want to use it to set up a full blown influence encounter. But it is up to you to figure out specifics from there.
These particular NPCs are sources of information for the PCs, so hopefully their combat abilities are irrelevant!
Well, you haven't met my murder hobos. Nothing is off the table.
Oh? You couldn't coerce the merchant into giving you an unreasonable discount? You want to murder him AND his family in their sleep? OKAY.....
Oh? You couldn't coerce the merchant into giving you an unreasonable discount? You want to murder him AND his family in their sleep? OKAY.....
I for one know of no better way to obtain the total wealth of another.