I have a squad of 5 NPCs who are supposed to be like a friendly rival group to my PCs. The last time they fought, my PCs pretty much crushed them, so I've been trying to think of ways to improve them so they're a more difficult challenge.
The squad is a Changeling Witch, a Foulspawn Tiefling Paladin, a Hobgoblin Knife-Master Rogue, an Oread Martial Artist/Barbarian,and a Dwarf Cleric. They're all jumping from LV4 to LV7. I am asking for advice pertaining to feat selection, multi-classing, anything that would make them a stronger challenge. If it's necessary, i will post current stats for each. Thank you in advance!
Definitely gonna need to see those stat blocks.
My Internet is failing, so now i have to type this out on my phone. -_- If I miss any important info, let me know.
Stats were rolled.
Changling Witch4 Patron Insanity
STR 12
DEX 14
CON 14
INT 18+2 magic
WIS 16
CHA 13
Hexes- Slumber, Flight (considering Prehensile Hair for the next one.)
Feats-Ability Focus (hexes), Accursed Hex
Traits-Reckless and Defensive Strategist.
Foul-spawn Tiefling Paladin4
STR 16+2 (magic)
DEX 12
CON 16
INT 14
WIS 15
CHA 16
Feats-Power Attack,Shield of Swings
Traits-Suicidal, Missionary for Intimidate
Hobgoblin Knife-Master Rogue4
STR 14
DEX 20
CON 14+2 (magic)
INT 14
WIS 16
CHA 12
Feats-TWF, Weapon Finesse, Dodge, Improved Initiative
Traits-River Rat, Reactionary
Oread Martial Artist (Monk)3/Barbarian1
STR 19
DEX 14+2 (magic)
CON 16
INT 12
WIS 19+2 (magic)
CHA 9
Feats-IUS,Stunning Fist, Dodge, Weapon Focus (unarmed), Belier's Bite, Dragon Style
Traits-Quain Martial Artist, Wisdom in the Flesh (Acrobatics)
Dwarf Cleric4 Domains Luck and Madness
STR 14
DEX 12
CON 16
INT 14
WIS 20
CHA 14+2 (magic)
Feats-Selective Channeling,Extra Channeling
Traits-Militant Merchant, Glory of Old
If you take prehensile hair for the witch, you could give her a couple of wands (with 5 charges each so they're cheap). I would focus team tactics- make the dwarf cleric and the monk/barbarian melee powerhouses, and then let the other three deal a lot of ranged damage.
Edit: You could have two on the front-line and three dealing ranged damage, the paladin is built for melee as well. If this is a very long-term campaign, you could give the paladin a level of Scryer (Conjuration specialist) then levels of Dragon Disciple, which will become pretty powerful in a few levels. I would give the hobgoblin knife-fighter rogue Point Blank Shot. I think other folks on the board will give better optimization advice than I can beyond that.
I was actually considering making the Rogue a ranged combatant, but I completely forgot that daggers were also throwing weapons. So I could give her daggers the returning enchantment, and then she can still get SA if she goes first, but without putting herself in immediate danger from melee range. And then since daggers are also melee weapons, she can take Offensive Defense for a boost to AC if they get into melee range.
As for the paladin, I wasn't sure if I should give him a PrC or even multiclass. Where can I find Scryer?
Also,I plan for the campaign to at least hit the midteens, like 14-16ish. It would be awesome to hit 20, but I don't know if I have enough to make it that far. We'll see.
I would grant them a means of summoning monsters, or grant them a team of combat trained animals, or even just scrolls of summon monster.
PC's will have really good action economy, and the party is more likely to simply overwhelm one of your rivals. As a GM running a big group it will be tough to use your rivals to their full potential (and you shouldn't), minions/summons/pets will let the players AOE while you plink away at their HP and resources. It also opens up more chances to escape if a rival looks too close to falling.
Maybe I could have the paladin take levels in summoner? Then he can frontline and support by summoning shades to deal STR damage (or demonic stuff for hilarity ^o^)
What about the witch? I figure just leave her as a witch for her hexes, but should I go into the Winter Witch PrC? Would that be worth it?
Are there any multi-classing options for the Rogue? Fighter or Ranger, maybe? A PrC?
And I know Clerics can become melee powerhouses, but I'm not familiar enough with them to do so. Any suggestions?
Here is the page with Scryer:
http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/advanced/coreClasses/wizard.html
The ability satisfies the 3rd level arcane spell requirement for Eldritch Knight, it's not needed for Dragon Disciple. And Scryer is a divination subschool, my mistake writing conjuration.
You could give one of the NPCs levels of summoner, or the cleric could focus on summoning. The feats Spell Focus- Conjuration and Augment Summoning, probably followed by Sacred Summons at level 9.
So I could go Paladin into Eldritch Knight after 1 lv of Wizard, and make my Cleric a mook maker that can also heal them?
Or give my Paladin summoner lvs for the CHA-based synergy and an eidolon who could be either another frontliner or (if biped) a ranged attacker?
The party seems good, the party is not supposed to win, do you want to kill the PCs?
if the answer if yes, make all of them Gestalt :D
TatsumakiKara wrote: So I could go Paladin into Eldritch Knight after 1 lv of Wizard, and make my Cleric a mook maker that can also heal them?
Or give my Paladin summoner lvs for the CHA-based synergy and an eidolon who could be either another frontliner or (if biped) a ranged attacker?
Both of those work. In a little over a week the Advanced Class Guide and Technology Guide will be released, in a week and a half I can make more suggestions from those books.
Zilfrel Findadur wrote: The party seems good, the party is not supposed to win, do you want to kill the PCs?
if the answer if yes, make all of them Gestalt :D
It's not about the PCs winning or losing, I'm just trying to make the NPCs a challenge. Like I said, at lv4, the PCs steamrolled them, so in-game and out-of-game, there is a motivation to get much stronger. They'll still likely lose, but it's also a friendly rivalry (though half of my PCs are not really friendly in-game now that I think about it), so losing =/= death unless my PCs try to kill them. But there are established reasons in-game why my PCs shouldn't kill them (both groups are part of the same military organization), but then PCs will poke a sleeping dragon in the eye, so...
ParagonDireRaccoon wrote: TatsumakiKara wrote: So I could go Paladin into Eldritch Knight after 1 lv of Wizard, and make my Cleric a mook maker that can also heal them?
Or give my Paladin summoner lvs for the CHA-based synergy and an eidolon who could be either another frontliner or (if biped) a ranged attacker?/QUOTE]
Both of those work. In a little over a week the Advanced Class Guide and Technology Guide will be released, in a week and a half I can make more suggestions from those books.
That's great, but the next time they meet is next week, so.... I'd still love the suggestions based on the new books, though. Maybe use them with other NPCs I'll have to make in the future. :)
Another option is to give both groups a challenge. You could spec the NPCs to be very mobile, and both groups have to reach a destination (with monster encounters along the way). The NPCs don't have to be unbeatable in combat to be a challenge. You could plan to make the NPCs much more challenging at level 12 or 13 (from a combat perspective). You could design an encounter where an important NPC leader is ill, and a rare ingredient is needed for the cure. The NPC group can have skills and magic items that make them well-suited to get the ingredient first, forcing the PCs to be creative to win.
ParagonDireRaccoon wrote: Another option is to give both groups a challenge. You could spec the NPCs to be very mobile, and both groups have to reach a destination (with monster encounters along the way). The NPCs don't have to be unbeatable in combat to be a challenge. You could plan to make the NPCs much more challenging at level 12 or 13 (from a combat perspective). You could design an encounter where an important NPC leader is ill, and a rare ingredient is needed for the cure. The NPC group can have skills and magic items that make them well-suited to get the ingredient first, forcing the PCs to be creative to win. I like this, up to the point where my PCs would probably attack them so they could take the ingredient and "be victorious." Although the witch having flight by that point would be the rest of them trying to hold off/run from the PCs while the witch soars through the skies. My PCs, well really,just the CN Ifrit Ranger, like to kill stuff. The rest just kinda follow along unless it's a really bad idea, or it really goes against their playstyles/characters.
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