Snares

[Waldham]

Hello, I have question about Snares.

How do you know if a snare normally takes 1 minute to Craft ?

Quote:

It must be a snare that normally takes 1 minute or less to Craft.

In a combat, if you set a trap, do you use the creator's Crafting DC as the snare's Stealth DC or the trap is automatically visible ?

Is it possible for a character to set a trap and is still hidden ?

Thanks for your future answer.

[Ravingdork]

Waldham wrote:

How do you know if a snare normally takes 1 minute to Craft?

You know when it doesn't say it would take longer.

Waldham wrote:

In a combat, if you set a trap, do you use the creator's Crafting DC as the snare's Stealth DC or the trap is automatically visible?

You use the Crafting DC. Snares are never automatically visible. That said, if someone witnesses you setting it up, they likely know the location of the snare and can avoid that area.

Waldham wrote:

Is it possible for a character to set a trap and is still hidden?

If you are Hidden or otherwise attempting to be Stealthy, setting up a snare--not being a Hide, Sneak, or Step action--would give you away unless your GM says otherwise. I would be pretty amenable if the player described attempting to do so quietly.

[Finoan]

Ravingdork wrote:

Waldham wrote:

How do you know if a snare normally takes 1 minute to Craft?

You know when it doesn't say it would take longer.

Yes. You can spend 1 minute to Craft a snare by expending an amount of money equal to the snare's listed Price. A specific snare would have to override that general rule to not qualify.

Ravingdork wrote:

Waldham wrote:

In a combat, if you set a trap, do you use the creator's Crafting DC as the snare's Stealth DC or the trap is automatically visible?

You use the Crafting DC. Snares are never automatically visible. That said, if someone witnesses you setting it up, they likely know the location of the snare and can avoid that area.

Exactly.

Ravingdork wrote:

Waldham wrote:

Is it possible for a character to set a trap and is still hidden?

If you are Hidden or otherwise attempting to be Stealthy, setting up a snare--not being a Hide, Sneak, or Step action--would give you away unless your GM says otherwise. I would be pretty amenable if the player described attempting to do so quietly.

I would mostly agree with that. It is a GM call, but taking a minute to set up a trap while hiding in cover or concealment where they would be having to make Stealth checks to remain hidden - that is a scenario where I wouldn't allow staying hidden while setting up a snare.

If they were around a corner setting up a snare from a location of total cover and no line of sight to the enemies, I would be more willing to let it be done without the nearby enemies knowing about it.

[Castilliano]

Seems there'd also be sound, at least with snares w/ metallic parts, and who know what tools are doing what when crafting a snare. Some snares get quite...impressive, despite their quick deployment and small size. So I'd just default to normal rules that you're losing Stealth benefits, though that doesn't guarantee they'll see or hear you either.

[Waldham]

Snare genius (kodold)

Quote:

Each day during your daily preparations, you can prepare three snares from your formula book for quick deployment (increasing to four snares if you're a master in Crafting and five if you're legendary). Snares prepared in this way don't cost you any resources to Craft.

Snarecrafter dedication

Quote:

Each day during your daily preparations, you can prepare four snares from your formula book for quick deployment (increasing to six snares if you're a master in Crafting and eight if you're legendary). Snares prepared in this way don't cost you any resources to Craft.

Is it cumulative for quick deployment the number of snares for each day during its daily preparation for a character with snare genius and Snarecrafter dedication ?

For example, 8 + 5 = 13 snares with legendary in crafting ?
16+5= 21 with plentiful of snares ?

Remote trigger is useful only on the snares with an area effect, no ?

[Finoan]

The number of quick deployment snares available is not a bonus type, so there really isn't a general rule to go on here. It would be up to the GM to decide if the character gets both piles of snares or not.

I would say no, because it looks too similar to the Advanced Alchemy Archetype benefits:

Advanced Alchemy Archetype wrote:

If you gain advanced alchemy from more than one source, use the highest number of alchemical consumables per day rather than adding them together, but you can make items of any type allowed by any of your advanced alchemy abilities.

So the character would get the highest number of quick deployment snares per day rather than adding them together.

[Errenor]

Finoan wrote:

The number of quick deployment snares available is not a bonus type, so there really isn't a general rule to go on here. It would be up to the GM to decide if the character gets both piles of snares or not.

I would say absolutely yes. It never was not additive. No reason to compare to alchemy at all, no mention of them being not additive.

And well, what you say isn't even logical: if there's no rule and no prohibition on adding them together - then you do what is written. Is it written you get them? You get them, and that's all.

[Finoan]

No reason - other than the general precedent in PF2 that getting the same thing twice doesn't stack. And are you not noticing the similarities between the quick deploy snares and Advanced Alchemy, or are you just ignoring it because it doesn't match the ruling that you want?

I'll agree that there is no rule saying that you don't get both.

But try not to be so hostile to the questions and balance concerns raised about it.

[Errenor]

Finoan wrote:

No reason - other than the general precedent in PF2 that getting the same thing twice doesn't stack. And are you not noticing the similarities between the quick deploy snares and Advanced Alchemy, or are you just ignoring it because it doesn't match the ruling that you want?

I'll agree that there is no rule saying that you don't get both.

But try not to be so hostile to the questions and balance concerns raised about it.

There's also the general precedent that things do stack.

Also, are you not noticing that snares and alchemy aren't even close in effectiveness, versatility and general usefulness, or are you ignoring it because it doesn't allow you put everything in one line?
Really, try not to be so restrictive just because some other part of the game has some restrictions.

[NorrKnekten]

I would also state that it is cumulative as thats how feats work. Feats that say they create temporary items do just that without any restrictions not already explicitly stated, With the caveat that you cannot take the same feat twice unless the feat tells you this in its special section, Different feats that do the same thing are still unique effects. Which is also why its pretty pointless for a Spellshot to grab the Wizard Archetype since they both use the same feats.

The rules for gaining Advanced Alchemy and Versatile Vials from multiple sources is specific to those mechanics alone. Otherwise it would've been stated in the paragraph after Alchemical Archetypes where it mentions how Archetypes handle Temporary Items.

[shroudb]

Alchemy is the odd one out, that's why it has to say it doesn't stack.

Everything else in the game, stacks:

You're a spellcaster and you grabbed a caster dedication? more spells.
You are a Swashbuckler and picked up rogue dedication? more Precision damage.
And etc.

So, given this premise, I'd say snares most definately stack.

[Waldham]

Remote trigger is useful only on the snares with an area effect, no ?

[NorrKnekten]

Waldham wrote:

Remote trigger is useful only on the snares with an area effect, no ?

Most of the time yes, since snares typically trigger when you step into their square so anything that requires them to stand in the snares square is not going to see much use out of Remote Trigger, unless we speak about prematurely triggering Snare Hazards from a safe distance.

[Squiggit]

Finoan wrote:

No reason - other than the general precedent in PF2 that getting the same thing twice doesn't stack. And are you not noticing the similarities between the quick deploy snares and Advanced Alchemy, or are you just ignoring it because it doesn't match the ruling that you want?

The similarity is noted, and arguably a ding against you here. Advanced Alchemy has a very specific exception written into it in terms of how alchemy benefits combine... so when Snarecrafter doesn't have any such exception, it seems reasonable to assume it's not meant to function the same way. Because it's different.

This is a very common theme across Pathfinder, where you don't apply rules from totally unrelated abilities to each other because they aren't the same.

This feels like saying that because Rogues need a target to be off-guard to use Sneak Attack it's reasonable to also assume Barbarians need a target to be off-guard to benefit from Rage, since they're both class features that increase your strike damage.

Quote:

But try not to be so hostile to the questions and balance concerns raised about it.

Balance concerns like? There isn't even a synergy here, it's just both feats doing their normal thing. Suggesting that a feat should just arbitrarily lose half its benefits seems like the larger balancing red flag here.