Trying to build some sort of caster class focused on distracting the enemy


Advice


So I'm looking through spells and archetypes trying to build essentially a mage built are causing distractions and the various debuffs that could evoke, but not only am I coming up short in my search but currently having no glasses means I'm surely missing something.

The only limitation is that I don't want them to be based on having a familiar, outside of that I'm done fore anything, where do you all think I should start?


I’d say Captivator, though it’s legacy.


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Most occult casters can fit this, specially using illusion spells.


Well, first - what do you intend and expect from 'distracting an enemy'?

The Fascinated condition doesn't really work in combat.

So mostly when I am thinking of distracting an enemy during combat, I am thinking of skill actions such as Demoralize, Bon Mot, or Dirty Trick.

For spells, I would be looking at things that give Dazzled or Confused conditions.


When I hear "distracting the enemy" I'm thinking anything that makes the enemy waste their actions.

Which can be as simple (not necessarily very effective) as using the spell Command and telling the enemy to drop their weapons or drop prone.


What comes to my mind is Distracting Performance.


I appreciate the suggestions so far, and doing my research it seems like I may want to use the Captivator archetype or a caster class that doesn't rely on intelligence as the character is from a race known for being barely above monster intelligence.

Making him some sort of martial class with Captivator and Performance-related feats would fit since the race is more known for being hunter-types.

If I were to pick a class tied to illusion spells that didn't require a familiar or Int, what would be the best choice?

For the record, I am the DM in this scenario, but I would like to try and build this character legitimately rather than just DM handwaving away in case my players end up liking the idea.


HedonisticAspie wrote:
If I were to pick a class tied to illusion spells that didn't require a familiar or Int, what would be the best choice?

The Wandering Reverie (Subconscious) + The Tangible Dream (Conscious) Psychic.


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Tangible Dream (Figment) is also nice for this concept even if you make a martial and access it only via archetype.

I would however urge you to question the premise of wanting to build monsters/NPCs 'by the book' as you would a PC. All of PF2's monster building guidelines explicitly reject that principle, and for good reason – it saves you so much mental energy that you can then spend on things that actually make the game better instead.

If your players end up liking this NPC's abilities so much that they want to model a PC after them, you can still worry about this question or accomodate them if they think the fantasy falls short without some homebrew additions. But given that you don't know yet if such interest will even exist, worrying about it now is probably not worth it (unless you just independently enjoy that I guess).


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HedonisticAspie wrote:
For the record, I am the DM in this scenario, but I would like to try and build this character legitimately rather than just DM handwaving away in case my players end up liking the idea.

As someone else already mentioned "building the character legitimately" as a NPC means you get to do whatever you want. The rules actually tell you not to use PC rules for building characters when making NPCs. And NPCs frequently can do things players cannot replicate, or only partially replicate. For many good reasons.

Don't over complicate things.


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If you wanted to do this character as a PC then a bard or a swashbuckler is probably the right answer. But I echo what others are saying about not bothering trying to build them as a PC, especially when you're using a "monstrous race" thst is presumably not available to actual PCs. Any unique abilities the creature has can be assumed to be racial features.

Also, the mechanical niche you're talking about is a support character that probably needs to be paired with a damage dealer to be anything less than a nuisance. And unless this is some kind of allied, long-term GMPC, it feels really unlikely the players will have enough time to fall in love with it the way you think they might.

To actually build this character "legitimately" you'd be better served by looking at abilities monsters and NPCs have in the same level range and finding ways you can reflavor them. The brownie springs to mind as a low level creature with a distraction ability, albeit not a great one.


It seems I've made some things messy unintentionally.

This race is Lizardfolk and is using their racial traits and stats, but in-world they are such a low intelligence that the other races can't really communicate with them, but are clearly intelligent enough to be a sentient species with their own society and communication.

Also this character is a GMPC, of which there are a few that I have but they aren't all always active with the party.

The setting is a magic academy in a world where even the naturally magical races find those who can cast spells to be rare, so said academy finds thsee people and provides them all the basics they need to survive as well as attempting to train them in their magic and other skills that can compliment them in exchange for them being sent out on quests by the academy as they come in. It's much like the typical guild hall in anime, but instead of just hosting quests and giving the rewards for completing them, you actually live there and are trained to handle various quests you are suited for.

Because of this, the party might be sent places with other mages, and for the world to be more realistic I have been working on making said mages. Current example is that they have a 'Squad Teacher' who is bringing them into field practice and with the four players there are 3 GMPC mages who have moved on from the very basic teachings with them while some others aren't ready to move on yet. After some time spent together, they won't always be with said 3 GMPC mages (or they might die/leave the academy/etc) but may only journey as the 4 of them or may go out with a larger crew.

I wanted those mages to be accurate to the level I'm implying them to be, and I figured actually making them as a PC would be the best way to do that.

I do appreciate the advice to not really worry about doing that, and I don't plan on ALL of my GMPCs to be built this way, but I do feel the need to do a couple this way so that they are of the proper power level.


Their power level won't be more accurately matching their level number by using PC rules than by using monster/NPC building guidelines. A player of level X is as strong as an NPC/monster of level X if you use the guidance from GM Core (Building Creatures).


Yeah, by the encounter building rules 2 NPCs of party CR/level are considered a moderate challenge.

If you look at NPCs of the same level as PCs, the NPCs have better stats/numbers typically. Not in all areas, but in the areas that character should be good in they are better mathematically than PCs.

If the NPC is only ever an ally of the party it doesn't matter so much.

If the party will ever fight the NPC, it's better to not build them with PC rules.


Claxon wrote:

If the NPC is only ever an ally of the party it doesn't matter so much.

If the party will ever fight the NPC, it's better to not build them with PC rules.

If the NPC fights along side the PCs on a regular basis, it may be better and more consistent to build them with PC rules. I'm not a big fan of having GMPCs, but it is sometimes necessary when you don't have enough players. And in the case of a full GMPC, it may very well throw off the encounter balance to have them built with monster/enemy rules and stats.

If the rules for the Fascinated condition don't support the character concept, the best thing to do would be to houserule the Fascinated condition so that it can be used in combat. An easy fix would be to change it so that it doesn't end just because of a random hostile action in the vicinity - the condition only ends automatically if you or an ally use a hostile action against that Fascinated target. That would be a permanent and global change that any character on both sides of the combat could then use.


Finoan wrote:
Claxon wrote:

If the NPC is only ever an ally of the party it doesn't matter so much.

If the party will ever fight the NPC, it's better to not build them with PC rules.

If the NPC fights along side the PCs on a regular basis, it may be better and more consistent to build them with PC rules. I'm not a big fan of having GMPCs, but it is sometimes necessary when you don't have enough players. And in the case of a full GMPC, it may very well throw off the encounter balance to have them built with monster/enemy rules and stats

That's fair and true too.

If the GMPC is going to regularly participate in combat as an ally, it probably would be better to build them as a PC (so they don't overshadow PCs too much).

If they're going to be an enemy, probably better to make them as an NPC.

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