Starfinder Tech Playtest Pogramming languages


Playtest General Discussion

Scarab Sages

First off: love the puns. Love me a good pun, and all the programming languages being a riff on Real world programming language (or programming language adjacent thins in the form of Servo Shell) is just fun.

Can't wait for the expansion book that adds Construction (Assembly), Nickl (COBAL), Itch (Scratch) and Coffee (Java)

But there are a few things that stand out.

As has been pointed out before, ServoShell doesn't really work with standard Starfinder action economy, and will need to be fixed.

But I want to talk about Viper. I'm worried it is a little niche. Don't get me wrong, I like the idea of being able to spellshape to use ANY spell gem (essentially a spell scroll), but it is the only one of the programming languages that you absolutely CANNOT use out of the gate. DPS++? You'll most likely have a weapon. Fortrun? You'll have armor. ServoShell(if it gets fixed)? You'll be able to summon a robot. But you don't start off with spell gems, and you are kinda reliant on your GM to give them to you. While most shops will have a gun or armor, they might not have spell gems.

I think Viper should overclock an item, like maybe a datapad that you start with or something. And then they should get a feat that lets them cast from any spell gem, or something. As it stands, that subclass could get really hosed if the GM doesn't give you many/any spell gems, as their entire class is kinda predicated on it. Like I said, I love the concept of being able to do more with spell gems, but it doesn't really work as is. I think it would be better as a series of viper-specific feats.

Also, super minor nitpick, I don't think the Spell Database technically says that it contains spells you learn from the learn a spell activity, or how you add new spells outside of levelups. Like I know wizards scribe scrolls into their spellbook, but I don't think it says anything for technomancers. Might want to spell that out for new players.


I think this is where the idea of overclocking ought to be expanded a little more to enable the creation of certain bits of tech. ServoShell needs a minion for a lot of its stuff to work, so might as well have a focus spell to summon a robot. Similarly, because Viper requires you to have spell gems, might as well have the subclass actually let you create weaker and temporary spell gems to then play with. From there, overclocking specific bits of tech would become much more consistent, and would have the benefit of letting you use your abilities more easily even if you find yourself on a low-tech planet or other part of the Universe.

Envoy's Alliance

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Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

I agree, Maybe a magichack/focus spell for ServoShell that works kind of like the Wild druid's. WHere in it allows for you to summon robots at base level, and other summons get added in with the caveat that in addition to any other trait they get the tech trait as well.

Second Seekers (Luwazi Elsebo)

Pathfinder Starfinder Society Subscriber

Not having access to the spell gems and chips you need for your class ability is a bit of a kicker, but honestly shouldn't come up too often. To be blunt, if the problem is "The GM isn't giving out any/many spell consumable to the class who's entire schtick is using spell consumables," that sounds like a GM problem, not a Technomancer problem.
The situations where it could arise, though, could be handled by crafting? To that end, maybe the Viper language could grant you the Fabricator skill feat (SF2 PT Core P. 150) so you can use Computers to craft tech items, possibly with a rider along the lines of "Viper allows you to craft spell gems and spell chips without needing the Magical Crafting feat; crafting other magical items require that feat as usual" so you can make some basic stuff right out of the gate? If we wanted to get really fancy, you could even say a Viper user's spell cache also functions as a commercial Creator Capsule (p 211) for printing spell gems & chips.
(Feels a bit silly if your spell cache is, like, an implant or a virtual construct or something, but, ¯\_(ツ)_/¯)

Scarab Sages

Kishmo wrote:

Not having access to the spell gems and chips you need for your class ability is a bit of a kicker, but honestly shouldn't come up too often. To be blunt, if the problem is "The GM isn't giving out any/many spell consumable to the class who's entire schtick is using spell consumables," that sounds like a GM problem, not a Technomancer problem.

The situations where it could arise, though, could be handled by crafting? To that end, maybe the Viper language could grant you the Fabricator skill feat (SF2 PT Core P. 150) so you can use Computers to craft tech items, possibly with a rider along the lines of "Viper allows you to craft spell gems and spell chips without needing the Magical Crafting feat; crafting other magical items require that feat as usual" so you can make some basic stuff right out of the gate? If we wanted to get really fancy, you could even say a Viper user's spell cache also functions as a commercial Creator Capsule (p 211) for printing spell gems & chips.
(Feels a bit silly if your spell cache is, like, an implant or a virtual construct or something, but, ¯\_(ツ)_/¯)

I agree that being able to craft your own spellgems would alleviate the problem, but I still think its a potential problem. What if your GM is running an AP that just happens to be lite on Spell Gems? Also, like I said, not being able to use your primary class ability out of the gate is a bit concerning.

Also, not every GM is perfect at GMing every aspect of the game. Giving the PCs enough spellgems that they can feel useful, while not enough to just let the party steamroller fights with 50 gems of fireball (I'm being hyperbolic for effect) could be a difficult tightrope for some GMs.


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I do feel like the languages should all have an extra, "get you started" bonus. DPS++ should get martial weapon proficiency, servoshell should give you a robot familiar, Fortrun should get heavier armor. Viper should probably get a free per day spell gem? That might be too strong comparatively, the equivalent existing ability would be the Scroll Trickster's Basic Scroll Cache which is not nearly as strong and is a 6th level archetype feat. Still, I suspect it's not gonna feel great to blow your entirely WBL on basic class functionality. Some access to free spell gems should be available somewhere.

Wayfinders

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Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber; Starfinder Superscriber
Arachnofiend wrote:
Viper should probably get a free per day spell gem? That might be too strong comparatively, the equivalent existing ability would be the Scroll Trickster's Basic Scroll Cache which is not nearly as strong and is a 6th level archetype feat.

Honestly, giving them a Basic Scroll Cache equivalent would be perfect, and you could even restrict it further (to account for getting it at level 1) by limiting it to their Spell Cache spell. And they're disinsentivized to use it anyway, for the very reason they need it - once they use it, they're out of any free way to use their Overclock/Jailbreak.


Arachnofiend wrote:
I do feel like the languages should all have an extra, "get you started" bonus. DPS++ should get martial weapon proficiency, servoshell should give you a robot familiar, Fortrun should get heavier armor. Viper should probably get a free per day spell gem? That might be too strong comparatively, the equivalent existing ability would be the Scroll Trickster's Basic Scroll Cache which is not nearly as strong and is a 6th level archetype feat. Still, I suspect it's not gonna feel great to blow your entirely WBL on basic class functionality. Some access to free spell gems should be available somewhere.

All the non-Viper suggestions are approximately a 1st-level general feat. The closest general feat for Viper is Prescient Consumable, which is much higher and wouldn't solve the funds issue. Maybe a daily spell gem of a first-rank spell you prepare?

Scarab Sages

QuidEst wrote:
Arachnofiend wrote:
I do feel like the languages should all have an extra, "get you started" bonus. DPS++ should get martial weapon proficiency, servoshell should give you a robot familiar, Fortrun should get heavier armor. Viper should probably get a free per day spell gem? That might be too strong comparatively, the equivalent existing ability would be the Scroll Trickster's Basic Scroll Cache which is not nearly as strong and is a 6th level archetype feat. Still, I suspect it's not gonna feel great to blow your entirely WBL on basic class functionality. Some access to free spell gems should be available somewhere.
All the non-Viper suggestions are approximately a 1st-level general feat. The closest general feat for Viper is Prescient Consumable, which is much higher and wouldn't solve the funds issue. Maybe a daily spell gem of a first-rank spell you prepare?

Yeah, I dunno. The feat Scroll thaumaturgy is sixth level, but it lets you make a scroll from any tradition, it doesn’t need to be in your spellbook/spell thumb drive, and gets better at level 8. Quite a bit more powerful than we are asking for. I dunno.


How about this for a 1st-level Viper feat:

  • When you gain this feat, choose one spell. You can only change your choice of spell by retraining this feat.
  • Each day when you make your daily preparations, you produce a single temporary spell gem containing your chosen spell, heightened to half the level at which you selected this feat rounded up (this will be 1st-rank). This temporary spell gem lasts until the next time you make your daily preparations.
  • You can select this feat more than once. Each time, you can choose a different spell, or a spell you've already chosen heightened to a different rank.

    Because this would be so much less flexible and powerful than Scroll Esoterica (you can only generate a single spell gem for the same arcane spell each time, rather than up to 2 scrolls of any common spell), this could perhaps be enough to be valid as a 1st-level feat.

  • Envoy's Alliance

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    Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

    I think that restriction should keep it from being too powerful, so that even if a human picks it up in addition to other class features, it shouldn't unbalance things. It's just, functionally, a single extra spell slot that can only be prepared at first level with a single spell.

    Maybe later feats allowing to change the selected spell of one of these (instead of retraining) but it can be changed to any spell of a rank they can cast, that they (the technomancer) or an ally is able to cast. This isn't a change they can repeat.

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