If I imbue my weapon ikon (a greatsword say) with Hurl at the Horizon, can I the have the returning rune etched onto it?
Why or why not? Please explain your answer.
I agree with Baarogue, Hurl at the Horizon doesn't turn your weapon into a permanent thrown weapon because it's an Immanence effect that only exists while your spark is in it. The item needs to have a permanent thrown to allow this. Follow a more updated rule:
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f an item can have two or more property runes, you decide which runes to swap and which to leave when transferring. If you attempt to transfer a rune to an item that can't accept it, such as transferring a melee weapon rune to a ranged weapon, you get an automatic critical failure on your Crafting check. If you transfer a potency rune, you might end up with property runes on an item that can't benefit from them. These property runes go dormant until transferred to an item with the necessary potency rune or until you etch the appropriate potency rune on the item bearing them.
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I agree with Baarogue, Hurl at the Horizon doesn't turn your weapon into a permanent thrown weapon because it's an Immanence effect that only exists while your spark is in it. The item needs to have a permanent thrown to allow this. Follow a more updated rule:
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f an item can have two or more property runes, you decide which runes to swap and which to leave when transferring. If you attempt to transfer a rune to an item that can't accept it, such as transferring a melee weapon rune to a ranged weapon, you get an automatic critical failure on your Crafting check. If you transfer a potency rune, you might end up with property runes on an item that can't benefit from them. These property runes go dormant until transferred to an item with the necessary potency rune or until you etch the appropriate potency rune on the item bearing them.
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I actually see this more as a weapon with a Shifting Rune than anything else.
If I have a Warhammer with a Shifting Rune and I turn it into a Trident (Thrown 20ft), I can now inscribe the Returning Rune on that Trident. If I shift it into a form that doesn't have Thrown, the Returning Rune is suppressed and stops working.
As long as the spark is in the Greatsword, the greatsword is a Thrown weapon and can therefore be inscribed with the Returning Rune. If it loses Thrown, the rune just stops working. There's no need to complicate it further than that IMO.
So no inscribing a returning rune on my major alchemist's fire then? XD
I like the idea of treating it like a shifting weapon.
So no inscribing a returning rune on my major alchemist's fire then? XD
I like the idea of treating it like a shifting weapon.
I mean, if you wanted to I'd probably let you just to see how you react when you throw your inscribed bomb, it explodes and the rune...dissipates?
This does make me wonder what happens to runes if the weapon/armor/shield they're inscribed onto is destroyed.
This reminds me of the debates about if you can inscribe a weapon rune onto a table leg because it is possible to use it as an improvised weapon.
And yes, the ruling is unclear because the rules aren't fully specific about how permanently an item needs to qualify for in order to be a valid target for a rune.
Does potentially qualifying for the rune at some hypothetical point in the future mean that the item is a valid target?
Does qualifying for the rune under some common circumstances mean that the item is a valid target?
Does qualifying for the rune most of the time mean that the item is a valid target?
Or does the item have to qualify for the rune all of the time in order to be a valid target?
This reminds me of the debates about if you can inscribe a weapon rune onto a table leg because it is possible to use it as an improvised weapon.
That's not an improvised weapon; that's a club.
This reminds me of the debates about if you can inscribe a weapon rune onto a table leg because it is possible to use it as an improvised weapon.That's not an improvised weapon; that's a club.
And even if it was only an imptovised weapon, it's ALWAYS a weapon, not sometimes: if something is an improvised weapon, it IS a simple weapon as much as a dagger is as there is no qualifier that it's only one when attacking with it. A torch, for instance, is ALWAYS a simple weapon.
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And even if it was only an imptovised weapon, it's ALWAYS a weapon, not sometimes: if something is an improvised weapon, it IS a simple weapon as much as a dagger is as there is no qualifier that it's only one when attacking with it. A torch, for instance, is ALWAYS a simple weapon.
Disagree.
I would classify taking a table leg and saying it is a club as being a shoddy weapon - which are always weapons.
Improvised weapons are only weapons during the time they are being used as a weapon.
Much like how a 1-hand weapon is always a 1-hand weapon. Unless it is being used in two hands, at which point it is a 2-hand weapon for the time that it is being used as such.
Pages 279–280 (Clarification): If I hold a weapon that requires 1 hand in 2 hands, is it a 2-handed weapon?
There are two answers to this.
For abilities that count the number of hands for a weapon while you're using it, such as an action with "Requirements You are wielding a one-handed melee weapon," count the actual number of hands you're using at the time. If you're holding a bastard sword in two hands, you couldn't use it with that ability. Weapons with the "1+" notation in their description, such as most bows, use both your hands when shooting, but leave you with a hand free for other actions the rest of the time.
Anything that's an intrinsic part of the weapon, such as a shifting rune, works differently. Reference the weapon's "Hands" entry in the weapons table—a bastard sword requires 1 hand, even though it gets a benefit in two hands from the two-hand trait. If you were holding a shifting bastard sword in two hands and activated it, you could turn it into a longsword (which you'd still be holding in two hands), but couldn't turn it into a greatsword (which requires 2 hands). For this purpose, "1" and "1+" are the same (though this doesn't matter for shifting since "1+" appears ranged weapons).
A table leg is intrinsically a non-weapon item.
A table leg - when you need it to qualify as a weapon in order to use your Strike ability with it - is an improvised weapon and counts as a simple weapon during the time that you are using it as such.
But there are no hard-and-fast RAW printed rules to say one way or the other.
So you are certainly free to continue sticking to your interpretation of the rules. But it also doesn't invalidate mine.
Disagree all you want. The rules are clear.
Clubs can be intricately carved pieces of martial art or as simple as a tree branch or piece of wood.
Any hefty piece of wood is a club, per the club description. The table leg wouldn't even be a shoddy club, unless the wood was rotten or already cracked or something, much less an improvised weapon.
Disagree.
the RAW is quite and unequivocally clear; "Improvised weapons are simple weapons." A clear and straightforward statement. No 'are simple weapons for proficiency' or 'are considered simple weapons when attacking'. They just plain ARE simple weapons. Anything else is a house rule.
A table leg is intrinsically a non-weapon item
If a DM rules that it's an Improvised weapon, then the rules say it's ALWAYS a simple weapon. You'd need to change the fundamental wording of improvised weapons for your view to be correct.
But there are no hard-and-fast RAW printed rules to say one way or the other.
Sure there is: Player Core pg. 275 "Improvised weapons are simple weapons." Anything that could apply to a simple weapon can be applied to an improvised weapon. For instance, an exemplars Humble Strikes works on improvised weapons because they ARE simple weapons. You can use Verdant Weapon, Poison Weapon, Silver Salve, a Flaming Star or a Predator's Claw because they are always weapons. If you alter the rules so they are sometimes weapons, a LOT of things that should work on them stop doing so for no good reason.
A table leg - when you need it to qualify as a weapon in order to use your Strike ability with it - is an improvised weapon and counts as a simple weapon during the time that you are using it as such.
You're making up rules here. There is NO "counts as" in the rule. "Improvised weapons are simple weapons." Full stop.
Poster graystone is correct.