| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
It's on my complaint list too. "20th level ability for 4th Rank effect??"
But to steelman it, brainstorming hereon, you do get to spam it and share it with others, being a Rune now. So it's like getting unlimited uses of a spell, except w/ the range & action economy of Runes. It might unlock spells that only work on the caster.
Compare to Bloodline Conduit (Sorc 20), which for an action lets you spam non-duration spells of 5th Rank or less. Runesmith already spams, wouldn't cost that extra action, can work on duration effects, with the major flaw being only one spell ever. Seems similar enough.
If you let another Runesmith learn the new Rune, then Retrain...?
What level Rune does it count as?
Okay, lets see an example: Stoneskin/Mountain Resilience sprung to mind. I would mean your whole party has DR 5 physical (except Adamantine) whenever prepping to enter a new area, and renewed for one action (if adjacent) during battle (plus Invoke, which you'll be using anyway). That does seem potent.
Or Etch a 4th Rank Heal on everybody, about 50 h.p. ready to go whenever you Invoke, and more to come with hardly a dent in your actions.
Or Heightened Invisibility (though iffier w/ all the senses high-level monsters have).
Those are all cool, but kinda replicable via scrolls & wands (though w/ Runes having superior in-battle application).
Yet who knows what shenanigans might be unlocked w/ Diacritics, or by getting a Focus Spell via MCD (albeit its 4th Rank version). Can one force a Battle Form upon an enemy?! (Even if they can Dismiss it, that'd be on their turn.) Can you decide where the Translocate takes your enemy? Yeah, these caster only spells have to be reined in! But it'd be cool if you Invoked and the whole party popped up wherever they (you?) wanted...every combat (if you get Etching time).
I already thought it'd be too difficult to build a player-facing system for creating Runes for gold, one that couldn't be exploited (and rather easily I'd think given endless casting). Now I'm certain of it, since even now the feat leaves loopholes that might be hard to future-proof even if fixed.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Well, PF2 also lacks player-facing spell creation, so there's that. (And for good reason IMO.)
Maybe Paizo could include a sidebar explaining good GM adjudication for Rune balance? I guess one could look at when Runes that resemble specific spells come online and extrapolate from there. Hmm. Wouldn't know how to calculate pricing though, given it represents unlimited use, but also costs one's (similar enough already) class resources to use.
Separately, I'd be interested in a more universal "spell storing Rune" even if for example only one might be able to exist at a time and maybe could only be Etched. If needed, the spells available might come off a list or have other parameters. Cuz' yeah, I feel the "rune-magic user" trope involves some creativity, not simple replicating (at least if one's going to entertain that new Runes remain unknown/available, which this feat does).
If the rune overrode duration as I thought it did on a casual first pass, I could see why it was a level 20 feat. Actually, that might be too powerful. But if your new rune wears off in one/ten minutes even if it's etched, it's a lot less useful.
| 4 people marked this as a favorite. |
I am reminded of how fuse stance was downgraded from level 20 to 16 in the remaster. Paizo seem to rate players getting to "create" features very highly, even far above the actual power of the created effect.
Fuse Stance would also be fine at like "Level 12". I think just structurally they're worried about open-ended feats like Fuse Stance and Forge New Word potentially becoming a problem due to a feat/spell they print in the future.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Honesty, I hate this ability so much. Just everything about it. Not able to make new runes until level 20, only one, and that one... doesn't fit any other runes.
Because you're copying an existing spell to create the rune, what's the passive effect going to be? Nothing. Nada. The invoke effect will just be the actual spell you're copying. But it's usable at will, since it's a rune, and auto up-cast to 10th level. That example of infinite combat speed heals? Yeah, make that significantly worse: It's an infinite use 10th level heal on a class that can only heal a small amount once per 10 minutes with a feat prior to this. But wait, there's more problems!
How does cast and invoke interact with spells that let you spend more actions on their casting for larger effects? Does it change the invoke speed? Does it count all the actions used to place it already? Does it only use the 1 action cast all the time, or the max 3 action cast effect? 10d8+80 in a 30-foot emanation at will with 2 actions by slapping yourself and invoking sounds a bit too strong for a class that otherwise is very clearly not meant to be a primary healer based on existing runes and feats, even at level 20. And it would be such a huge change to the character's feel if they suddenly are doing that all the time.
Oh, and then there's the actual fluff problems beyond the fact that the spell runes won't act like other runes: We can already have runes learned for crafting purposes without the limits of runes known. Runes shouldn't be "known" in the first place, they should be learned and prepared if they're on an Int based class that Learned them. I'd accept the current runes known limit for someone who got runes etched into their soul by godly forces as they grew in power, or something, but if you are learning stuff, there's no reason you shouldn't be able to switch things out and learn new ones.
And for this feat in particular? It tells us, supported by the counter spell feat, that any spell can be broken down into runes. So if you can do it once... why can't you ever do it again? There's no god of runes you're worshipping who's giving you it, the feat says you manage to translate it. What if you're an Elf and have 500 more years in you, and you did this after 20? How can you never do it again?
It all just makes no sense, lore or mechanics wise, to include this feat the way it is. It's horribly abusable, but not even what you want for the class, and it further cuts off the idea in people's head that you can make new runes by saying "that's a level 20 feat to do that though."