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But then it either requires constant upkeep as new spells are added, or it falls into the PF1 problem with extra spell lists: they just stop getting support and spells that should be on them don't wind up on them.
They moved away from that design for good reasons. This could have been done more eaisly in premaster by saying "all Necromancy spells are on your spell list regardless of tradition", but that isn't an option anymore.
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I think you will find many people disagree with your assessment of spells.
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IMO the main problem of necromancer spellslot spellcasting is that it's unintegrated/unsynergy with the rest of the class chassis and feats. I don´t expect that the designers remove the spellslots to only focus into focus spell for a class that's clearly a spellcaster. But I think they need a better integration and synergy with the occult spells.
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I think it is a requirement or at the ver least allow the Necromancer to steal spells from other Traditions whihc fit in to the Necrmancer's theme like Vitality LAsh, Harm and Heal. It is weird that for some reason they get cut off from being able to do that, maybe allow Necromancers to pick up any spell with the Void or Vitality Trait and any which effect Undead?
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The problem with a necromancy list is that it would be too locked down. Right now, the occult list means your necromancer can turn invisible to flee when there's an angry mob, magically disguise an undead minion as a living creature, and use illusions to call up visions of an enemy's departed loved ones (or living loved ones, to claim they're recently departed). They have a wider selection of curses and can use telekinetic spells as spirits flinging things about.
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I'm my opinion my spell slots are for when I run out of things to do with my thralls
So by round 5
Or I use it in the beginning for a buff.
I have a pretty same view of Martialmasters the necromancer spells are more for situations where the main focus spells are not ideal. I still think that they can be more integrated with the class chassis with more feats/features that affect your spellslot spells but I like the idea of have the occult spell list available to solve many different situations and to heal allies.
I have a pretty same view of Martialmasters the necromancer spells are more for situations where the main focus spells are not ideal. I still think that they can be more integrated with the class chassis with more feats/features that affect your spellslot spells but I like the idea of have the occult spell list available to solve many different situations and to heal allies.
I'd be for a spell shape that let's the thralls do something when we cast a spell.
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The bespoke spell lists like Elemental are forever stuck not expanding unless there's a lot of upkeep.
Rage of Elements' elementalist spell list auto expands with every future spell that has an elemental trait, at least.
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Aside from Necromancer's Generosity and Harm, what are the spells on the Divine and Arcane list you think that are missing on the Occult list? What would you add?
The bespoke spell lists like Elemental are forever stuck not expanding unless there's a lot of upkeep. It was a huge problem in 1e and is already a little problematic with the Elemental list. I don't see a bespoke list working.
I've said this in other threads, but I'm completely in favor of Occult for this list being the bridge between Arcane and Divine. It does a pretty good job of getting most undead themed spells. I also fully expect there to be more feats and abilities which empower spells with the use of a Thrall -- a sort of custom Spellshape for a Necromancer.
Personally, I am against a bespoke list but there are some classic "necromancer" spells like Massacre, Execute (Finger of Death), Eclipse Burst, Necrotize and Sudden Blight which just are not on the occult list. Maybe a clause allowing you to learn spells with the void trait regardless of tradition? It would tie in well with in-universe theories of necromancy being its own form of magic.
Aside from Necromancer's Generosity and Harm, what are the spells on the Divine and Arcane list you think that are missing on the Occult list? What would you add?
Basically are Falsify Heat and Execute.
But every tradition have some undead related spell missing. Arcane doesn´t have talking corpse and divine doesn´t have Falsify Heat. So IMO occult is good for a undead caster and make an exclusive spell list is more problematic than useful.
Aside from Necromancer's Generosity and Harm, what are the spells on the Divine and Arcane list you think that are missing on the Occult list? What would you add?
The bespoke spell lists like Elemental are forever stuck not expanding unless there's a lot of upkeep. It was a huge problem in 1e and is already a little problematic with the Elemental list. I don't see a bespoke list working.
I've said this in other threads, but I'm completely in favor of Occult for this list being the bridge between Arcane and Divine. It does a pretty good job of getting most undead themed spells. I also fully expect there to be more feats and abilities which empower spells with the use of a Thrall -- a sort of custom Spellshape for a Necromancer.
Vitality Lash, Admonishing Ray, Heal, Infuse Vitality, Boneshaker, Bone Spray, Share Life, Sudden Blight, Life Connection, Positive Attunement, Life's Fresh Bloom, Soothing Spring, Vital Beacon, Healing Well, Spiritual Guardian, Gray Shadow, Necrotize, Raise Dead, Suffocate, Eclipse Burst, Execute, Divine Armageddon (by technicality), Moment of Renewal, Massacre, Revival
All stuff searching divine list not on occult. Arcane and Primal may have more
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Aside from Necromancer's Generosity and Harm, what are the spells on the Divine and Arcane list you think that are missing on the Occult list? What would you add?Basically are Falsify Heat and Execute.
Mimic Undead is a better spell for a necromancer than Falsify Heat. Strict upgrade in the theme and nearly equal in power.
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A necromancy spell list could work similarly, and contain all spells with the spirit, vitality, and void traits.
That would give it Divine Decree/Immolation/Lance/Wrath.
That would give it Divine Decree/Immolation/Lance/Wrath.
A necromancy spell list could work similarly, and contain all spells with the spirit, vitality, and void traits.
This is fine, and good even
lmao
So Spirit, but no Sanctified trait, then; how many other spells does that preclude?That would give it Divine Decree/Immolation/Lance/Wrath.
A necromancy spell list could work similarly, and contain all spells with the spirit, vitality, and void traits.
Frankly I was not kidding that those four spells are fine. The name is the only thing that feels a little weird, but the effect is perfectly acceptable for a necromancer. Just change the theming
I figured you were being serious, but I'm less certain, myself. Divine Immolation feels especially odd for a necromancer to be using; divine fire doesn't really gel with master of undeath to me.Frankly I was not kidding that those four spells are fine. The name is the only thing that feels a little weird, but the effect is perfectly acceptable for a necromancer. Just change the themingSo Spirit, but no Sanctified trait, then; how many other spells does that preclude?That would give it Divine Decree/Immolation/Lance/Wrath.
A necromancy spell list could work similarly, and contain all spells with the spirit, vitality, and void traits.
It's pushes it, but I think it could be rethemed easily. Fire is something that is thematic for some necromancers sans the whole sanctified aspect. Flaming and exploding undead. Ghostly flames. Simply being a wizard and having fireball(lol)