Pathfinder Society and Dice

[eachtoxicwolf]

Hi all

Are there any restrictions to IRL sessions for whether I use a dice rolling app or physical dice for Pathfinder Society games?

My curiousity arises from the fact that my local gaming store has been running sessions for several months now and nobody has cared about what I use to roll dice. However, recently the GMs have started requiring that I roll physical dice. This has made it much harder for my brain to focus on the game, as I am used to keeping track of my stats etc on pathbuilder 2e, then using that to generate a dice roll. I am tempted to have a word, but it's only happened twice and I don't want to cause too much trouble with the group yet.

[Alison-Cybe]

Sounds more than a little ableist to me.

[logsig]

There is no PFS-wide rule or restriction about rolling via an app or using physical dice.

The usual reason why a GM will mandate physical dice at their table is to be able to see what players rolled and determine whether this matches what they say they rolled. In other words, there is, or has been, a suspicion of dice rolls being fudged by somebody using an app where the rolls could not be seen by anyone else. This doesn't necessarily mean that you specifically are suspected; it may be that they were told to apply this policy uniformly (i.e. for everyone to "roll openly").

Talk to the VO for your venue. If the reason for the mandate is the desire for open rolling, there may be reasonable alternatives that serve the same purpose, such as showing your screen.

[eachtoxicwolf]

logsig wrote:

There is no PFS-wide rule or restriction about rolling via an app or using physical dice.

The usual reason why a GM will mandate physical dice at their table is to be able to see what players rolled and determine whether this matches what they say they rolled. In other words, there is, or has been, a suspicion of dice rolls being fudged by somebody using an app where the rolls could not be seen by anyone else. This doesn't necessarily mean that you specifically are suspected; it may be that they were told to apply this policy uniformly (i.e. for everyone to "roll openly").

Talk to the VO for your venue. If the reason for the mandate is the desire for open rolling, there may be reasonable alternatives that serve the same purpose, such as showing your screen.

Perfect, thanks. I'll have a try next time I meet the VO. I've followed a policy of sharing my screen on request, and generally whenever I feel anything is questioned. The reason I was given for using physical dice was that the apps used aren't mathematically random enough for the GM.

[Blake's Tiger]

That’s funny, though not for you. The rationale is technically correct—digital randomization is not random—but one would need to be very adept at computer science to abuse that fact.

More likely could be that a specific version of dice roller is suspected of being controlled so rather than playing whack-a-mole versus digital apps, they banned all dice rollers. Suggest they generate a list of allowed dice rollers. Pathbuilder should have a decent reputation.

[eachtoxicwolf]

Blake's Tiger wrote:

That’s funny, though not for you. The rationale is technically correct—digital randomization is not random—but one would need to be very adept at computer science to abuse that fact.

More likely could be that a specific version of dice roller is suspected of being controlled so rather than playing whack-a-mole versus digital apps, they banned all dice rollers. Suggest they generate a list of allowed dice rollers. Pathbuilder should have a decent reputation.

Worth a try. Thanks for the advice. Funny thing is, I am using Pathbuilder to generate the dice rolls.

Only other thing I'm tempted to suggest is that their dice may not be 100% random due to damage from use or imperfections when created

[Gisher]

Blake's Tiger wrote:

The rationale is technically correct—digital randomization is not random—

...

Of course, the universe might be a deterministic system, and in that case nothing, including die rolls, would be truly random.

[Squark]

I'd be more likely to blame certain rolling "techniques" over tiny flaws in construction for dice behavior. Not even necessarily deliberate ones- I no longer trust myself to roll dice without a dice tower, although that might be confirmation bias.

[Joe Jungers]

I've noticed that with actual dice on the table, other nearby players cheer for the player when the dice roll high and commiserate when they turn against you. It makes dice on the table more of a community thing than passing along a digital result for your PC's actions.

[eachtoxicwolf]

Minor update for this: I spoke to the store owner, pointed out it was kinda taking me out of the zone because disabled brain is weird. Owner said they'd have a word. Not sure if that happened yet, but it only seems to be maybe 2 GMs, one of which ran today. Second roll in, I got "please can you use physical dice" which brought me out of my zone. I'm going to ask if that conversation did happen before doing anything else because I really don't feel comfortable playing with those GMs now if they're going to pull this stuff 10 minutes into session. Especially when the room we're in barely fits 7 people+GM screen.

[Sebastian Hirsch]

There might be reasons for it, but it is certainly something to talk with your local VO about. It might also be the case that the GMs find it easier to see the dice than you calling out the number - or there might have been issues or worries about people cheating.

Or maybe try some online gaming, where using a VTT is perfectly normal, and people wanting to roll their own dice are the minority.

[eachtoxicwolf]

Sebastian Hirsch wrote:

There might be reasons for it, but it is certainly something to talk with your local VO about. It might also be the case that the GMs find it easier to see the dice than you calling out the number - or there might have been issues or worries about people cheating.

Or maybe try some online gaming, where using a VTT is perfectly normal, and people wanting to roll their own dice are the minority.

Unfortunately the local VO is one of the two who started calling for it...... and is also a friend of the store owner. Main reason I went to said store owner first is to ask "how do I approach this?" To which the response was that the store owner would have a word and ask.

Otherwise, I may just try going online for a few games more

[Alison-Cybe]

eachtoxicwolf wrote:

Unfortunately the local VO is one of the two who started calling for it...... and is also a friend of the store owner. Main reason I went to said store owner first is to ask "how do I approach this?" To which the response was that the store owner would have a word and ask.

Otherwise, I may just try going online for a few games more

Totally understand - that kind of thing happens more often than you'd think, when a VO gets an idea about how things 'should be done' and ends up making it into a situation where players don't have any means to rectify any problems that crop up.

Honest, best advice, just find another group to play with. If this one isn't willing to even hear out the idea of accommodating for differently abled players, you won't be missing out.

[zeonsghost]

Sorry you're dealing with this. I actually use a dice roller to save table space and time. It's just faster for me to press buttons than it is to dig out dice, chase dice, and all the other fun stuff. If they're worried about cheating, I would offer to sit next to them so they can see your screen. With the few cheaters I've caught and dealt with over the years, they try to put themselves and their dice as far away from the GM as they can be. Kinda clue #1 to that behavior. Maybe they'd be more accommodating that way?

Just a thought.

[eachtoxicwolf]

zeonsghost wrote:

Sorry you're dealing with this. I actually use a dice roller to save table space and time. It's just faster for me to press buttons than it is to dig out dice, chase dice, and all the other fun stuff. If they're worried about cheating, I would offer to sit next to them so they can see your screen. With the few cheaters I've caught and dealt with over the years, they try to put themselves and their dice as far away from the GM as they can be. Kinda clue #1 to that behavior. Maybe they'd be more accommodating that way?

Just a thought.

Hopefully yes. Thankfully recently they haven't run anything in the runup to Christmas/New Year.

Sometimes logistics are a bit off due to room size (one room we regularly use is so cramped that we have to play a variation of musical chairs if the wrong person wants to go to the toilet. If I get there early enough I tend to get a seat basically next to the GM but at a 90 degree angle to them. I've always offered to share rolls as required.

Only big rolls I've seen that aren't covered by Pathbuilder 2e are death saves and the 2d8 health recovery rolls for treat wound checks. And I could easily enough figure something out if I was desperate.

[eachtoxicwolf]

PFS games restarted after Christmas here. Unfortunately despite the store owner having a word, no joy. Apparantly Pathbuilder doesn't handle the crits right. By that point, it was 10 minutes into the session with a new player. I wasn't exactly going to start a fight then.