Why can't a wand or even a scroll contain a cantrip or focus spell?

[Bookkeeper]

Given the requirements to activate a wand or scroll, it's not as though players have free access to other classes' focus spells, and I am particularly puzzled about cantrips. A wand of message would be a neat communication tool for a party low on casters, for instance.

[Finoan]

Cantrips on a permanent item aren't wands. They are Spellhearts. Such as this one that casts Bullhorn.

I am not seeing one for Message, but it wouldn't be hard to homebrew one.

Focus spells are intended to not be available on items. You only get those from class features. And they are balanced around costing a focus point to cast. Casting them from an item would upset that balance.

[Squark]

For focus spells, it's to maintain class identity. Trick magic item exists and would make it way too easy to poach choice focus spells.

Spellhearts work like cantrip wands, and Cantrip Decks serve the purpose of cantrip scrolls, and are available in packs of 5 for 5 GP.

[Perpdepog]

I suspect it's also something of a cost issue. Cantrips and focus spells are meant to be cast at your highest spell rank, so does that mean you'd cast them at their highest ranks whenever using a scroll? Do the scrolls need to be made at specific levels to contain certain ranks of cantrips or focus spells?

Not that those questions would be stopping the creation of cantrip/focus spell scrolls on their own, but it's another little headache to pile onto the other, good reasons folks have pointed out.

[BotBrain]

Perpdepog wrote:

I suspect it's also something of a cost issue. Cantrips and focus spells are meant to be cast at your highest spell rank, so does that mean you'd cast them at their highest ranks whenever using a scroll? Do the scrolls need to be made at specific levels to contain certain ranks of cantrips or focus spells?

Not that those questions would be stopping the creation of cantrip/focus spell scrolls on their own, but it's another little headache to pile onto the other, good reasons folks have pointed out.

The cantrip decks in secrets of magic don't upcast as they're just level 1 items, so if I were homebrewing variants with higher level cantrips I'd just key it off item level. Seems to be the easiest way to do it.

[Finoan]

BotBrain wrote:

The cantrip decks in secrets of magic don't upcast as they're just level 1 items,

I hadn't noticed that. And it is a bit rare. Normally cantrips - even cantrips cast from items - will scale Rank to the appropriate Rank of the one activating the item.

Only items that specify a Rank that they cast the spell at don't because that is a specific rule that overrides the general Cantrip rules.

But the Cantrip Deck does have that specific Rank casting wording.

So yeah. Homebrew a higher item level Cantrip deck if you want a higher Rank cantrip available.

[Solarsyphon]

Cantrips aren't on wands or scrolls because generally speaking cantrips are spells you want to cast many times and a single cast is likely not very valuable.

Staves often have cantrips which cover cantrips for casters. Spell hearts attach to weapons/armor and cover cantrips for marshals.

As for focus spells I don't think there is a rule against them being put on wands or scrolls. It's just not commonly done because many GM's see focus spells as more class specific. You also rarely need to use them for wands because many focus spells are minor modifications to other spells that are often more limited because they are usable more often.

There isn't really an issue in terms of level for each because the level would be set by the wand/scroll. A level 5 scroll with a focus spell would carry a level 5 version of the spells the same as any other spell being up cast. Which is probably poor value for the cost but is the most straight forward interpretation of scrolls /wands and avoids these choices being too powerful for the cost.

[Gisher]

Finoan wrote:

I am not seeing one for Message, but it wouldn't be hard to homebrew one.

They aren't spelhearts, but there are the Messenger's Ring and the Spy Staff.

[Perpdepog]

Solarsyphon wrote:

As for focus spells I don't think there is a rule against them being put on wands or scrolls.

Scrolls, GM Core, p. 262 wrote:

A scroll contains a single spell that you can cast without having to expend a spell slot. A scroll can be Crafted to contain nearly any spell. The exceptions are cantrips, focus spells, and rituals, none of which can be put on scrolls. The spell on a scroll can be cast only once, and the scroll is destroyed as part of the casting.

Wands, GM Core, p. 282 wrote:

Short, slender items typically made of wood, wands let you cast a specific spell without expending a spell slot. They can be used once per day, but can be overcharged to attempt to cast them again at great risk. Each wand holds a spell of a certain rank, determined when the wand is created. Cantrips, focus spells, and rituals can't be placed in wands.

[Ascalaphus]

I don't think it's a balance thing. It's just that cantrips and focus spells are kind of at odds with how wands and scrolls work.

You can use a scroll once. You can use a wand once-ish per day. But the big point of cantrips and focus spells is being able to use them many times per day.

A reusable cantrip scroll wouldn't be an OP item, but it'd be different enough from a scroll that maybe it makes more sense to call it a different type of item. Like eh, a spellheart?

There's also an issue of determining item level. What would be the item level and price of a scroll with a cantrip on it? When you cast it, would it be the level you paid for or bumped to your own if it's better?

[Finoan]

Ascalaphus wrote:

I don't think it's a balance thing. It's just that cantrips and focus spells are kind of at odds with how wands and scrolls work.

I agree for cantrips, but not focus spells.

You can get items that cast cantrips multiple times per day. Houseruling that you can put one on a wand and then use the wand at-will to cast the cantrip wouldn't be very mechanically different as far as power level of casting cantrips. It would be very different for what is normally capable for a wand though.

Focus spells are more of an identity thing. If you want Lay on Hands, then you need to get Lay on Hands from character build. You don't get to just buy that from an item. As for balance: Yes, one wand of Lay on Hands would be about as powerful as getting Battle Medicine - a 1/day in-combat healing ability. But you aren't limited to one wand. You are effectively able to buy extra focus points with GP to cast your focus spells more times per day. That is a noticeable power boost.