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Alchemist
Formula Book
"As normal, having the base formula is sufficient when Crafting upgraded types of the item—you don’t need to learn higher-level formulas. For instance, if you have the 1st-level formula for a minor elixir of life, you can create a minor, lesser, moderate, greater, major, or true elixir of life as long as you meet the level and other prerequisites."
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graystone was also quoting from the Alchemist's class features that explicitly says you don't need it, so no.That quote specifically says "Crafting", I'm curious about Quick Alchemy specifically.
So, if you wanted to be really technical and narrow, you could try to rule it that way.
But Quick Alchemy refers back to your formula book, and the "Formula Book" class feature is what says that "as usual" the lower level formula is sufficient. (The "as usual" refers to GM Core p. 233 which discusses formulas for items with multiple grades.)
I think you're being too cynical here and trying to find a rug-pull where none was intended.
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Darrel is correct that technically the way it is written is missing something /erroneous.
The when text says: "you don’t need to learn higher-level formulas." to craft higher Lvl versions, that's a big "Paizo ooops", because that means that you explicitly do -not- have those higher L formulas in your book.
My "RaW stretch" to have this still function is to point to Q-Alch directly invoking the Craft activity via "... you do not need to perform a Crafting check..." Basically, Q-Alch is not a parallel independent activity adjacent to Craft, but a modified version of Craft, and uses/inherits Craft's rules.
The nature of Q and Advanced Alchemy being built upon and inheriting the Craft rules actually ruffled some feathers in the past, but in this instance, it is why the remaster formula-heightening thing is functional despite the oops.
If you qualify as having the formula to Craft it, you also qualify for A+Q-Alch.
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It's an oops because the wording makes 0 sense to one not familiar with the out-of-game context that we have surrounding the remaster and the changes made.
By saying you don't need the higher L formulas for Craft, the wording implies you do -not- auto-get the higher L versions/copies, and that instead the task does not need those formulas (for Craft).
Waiving the requirement is not the same thing as meeting the requirement.
Quick Alchemy specifically says you need the formula of the item. By all accounts, that specific requirement of Quick Alchemy appears to override the general rule of not needing the higher versions.
Someone not familiar w/ Alchemist can easily read those and think Quick Alchemy is intentionally made to have a higher restriction and does require each specific formula.
If Paizo did indeed intend for Alchemist to not require the specific formula for the item for Quick Alchemy, they should not have Q-Alch sound like you do need the formula.
Like, how is that a contentious thing to say.
The text is absurdly misleading there, and I predict this exact same question is going to come back around like a comet a few times unless errata happens.
But yes, super technically, Q-Alch's requirement of the item being in your formula book does not explicitly state the formula must be the matching Lvl version of the consumable. You need one formula of that item type/family, of any less/greater version.
Regardless, the formula auto-heightening thing really should be mentioned to explicitly function beyond the mundane alchemical crafting. Advanced Alch I think does -barely- go far enough by directly saying that "you Craft..." so you know to use those rules (that have the auto-heighten).
Quick Alch does not do that, and many others have already discussed how the text of Quick Alchemy is a confusing mess after the remaster in other respects.
Quick Alchemy is simply preventing you from somehow obtaining a level 20 formula and using it for quick alchemy at level 1.
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It's an oops because the wording makes 0 sense to one not familiar with the out-of-game context that we have surrounding the remaster and the changes made.
By saying you don't need the higher L formulas for Craft, the wording implies you do -not- auto-get the higher L versions/copies, and that instead the task does not need those formulas (for Craft).
Waiving the requirement is not the same thing as meeting the requirement.
Quick Alchemy specifically says you need the formula of the item. By all accounts, that specific requirement of Quick Alchemy appears to override the general rule of not needing the higher versions.
Someone not familiar w/ Alchemist can easily read those and think Quick Alchemy is intentionally made to have a higher restriction and does require each specific formula.
If Paizo did indeed intend for Alchemist to not require the specific formula for the item for Quick Alchemy, they should not have Q-Alch sound like you do need the formula.
Like, how is that a contentious thing to say.The text is absurdly misleading there, and I predict this exact same question is going to come back around like a comet a few times unless errata happens.
But yes, super technically, Q-Alch's requirement of the item being in your formula book does not explicitly state the formula must be the matching Lvl version of the consumable. You need one formula of that item type/family, of any less/greater version.
Regardless, the formula auto-heightening thing really should be mentioned to explicitly function beyond the mundane alchemical crafting. Advanced Alch I think does -barely- go far enough by directly saying that "you Craft..." so you know to use those rules (that have the auto-heighten).
Quick Alch does not do that, and many others have already discussed how the text of Quick Alchemy is a confusing mess after the remaster in other respects.
I think you're missing a large part of the text here.
The Formula Book class feature says:
As normal, having the base formula is sufficient when
Crafting upgraded types of the item—you don’t need to
learn higher-level formulas. For instance, if you have the
1st-level formula for a minor elixir of life, you can create
a minor, lesser, moderate, greater, major, or true elixir of
life as long as you meet the level and other prerequisites.
I don't see how that's "absurdly misleading". It says you need the formula but only one level of it, and then gives a clear example of that.
And if you're worried that Quick Alchemy isn't technically Crafting so this wouldn't apply, well, that's already covered:
• Create Consumable You expend one of your versatile
vials to create a single alchemical consumable item
of your level or lower that’s in your formula book.
You don’t have to spend the normal monetary cost
in alchemical raw materials or need to attempt a
Crafting check. This item has the infused trait, but it
remains potent only until the start of your next turn.
(As normal, you need only one formula for an item to
create any level of that item.)
Ugh, that's what I get for posting right before bed.
That parenthesis text is there in the PC2 pdf, which should cover the issue rather completely
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My take on the "you don't need to learn a higher level formula" means that everything you needed to make the higher level item was already in your original, 1LV formula. In fact it really isn't a 1LV at all, but as you progress in levels, you learn how to perfect the formula, tweak it as your knowledge grows.
I'm a home brewer. My club will have brew days where we will use the exact same recipes, ingredients, etc but the expert brewers will make a better beer.
My take on the "you don't need to learn a higher level formula" means that everything you needed to make the higher level item was already in your original, 1LV formula. In fact it really isn't a 1LV at all, but as you progress in levels, you learn how to perfect the formula, tweak it as your knowledge grows.
I like this take!