You could possibly use Will save bonus. It is on the same scale and guaranteed to be at least trained.
If you decide that you do want to stick with a skill, you could use Society for how long it took for the character to process what was said.
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Perception also covers Sense Motive, which seems fitting in this situation (does the NPC sees through the PC personal attack and quickly react accordingly or are they consumed by their emotions before losing it?).
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They're not really using a skill here, so Perception (Sense Motive) works just fine.
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You could possibly use Will save bonus. It is on the same scale and guaranteed to be at least trained.
If you decide that you do want to stick with a skill, you could use Society for how long it took for the character to process what was said.
I like the idea of using saving throws for the occasional initiative, but in this case I'd probably use Reflex, as the NPC is basically lashing out on reflex.
Yeah. Lots of options to choose from.
The choice of which one to use would ideally be up to the player of the character. With GM approval of the options to choose from.
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I am reminded of a cautionary tale regarding an ornamental fruit inscribed with 'To the fairest'.
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Yeah that makes the most sense to me. With the power bestowed upon me as OP I declare you the winner of this conversation.I like the idea of using saving throws for the occasional initiative, but in this case I'd probably use Reflex, as the NPC is basically lashing out on reflex.
Wooooo im the best
Funnily enough, this makes Barbarians, the class one would think would be fastest at flying into completely blind rage and attacking into one of the lowest in initiative due to Ref being a weaker save for them. :-)
Not even sure "completely blind rage" has meaning narratively except to say that person's so incompetent at fighting that mechanically they get a penalty to their perception. Or as in the OP, doesn't even choose to attack which sounds like a major psychological issue. And if the person doesn't even know they're attacking before they attack, what signals are others picking up one? Heck, I might even use their Attack Bonus as initiative.
You could possibly use Will save bonus. It is on the same scale and guaranteed to be at least trained.this is the best fit imo. It matches the narrative of trying, and possibly failing, to control oneself when provoked. And it would be affected by penalties to one's Will save, which usually represent a reduction in wits and self control, like from stupefied or Bon Mot
But rolling a high will save would mean they are maintaining control and NOT attacking, which is the opposite of what the op wants.
But rolling a high will save would mean they are maintaining control and NOT attacking, which is the opposite of what the op wants.You could possibly use Will save bonus. It is on the same scale and guaranteed to be at least trained.this is the best fit imo. It matches the narrative of trying, and possibly failing, to control oneself when provoked. And it would be affected by penalties to one's Will save, which usually represent a reduction in wits and self control, like from stupefied or Bon Mot
Not necessarily.
Your Will defense is to stay true to yourself. To avoid being controlled by someone else through means magical or mundane.
Now, there certainly is an argument that someone saying something to you that puts you into an unthinking state and causes you to attack would be protected by a Will save, and that doing well at the Will save means that you keep control of yourself and don't rise to the bait.
However, if what the person says combined with your own personality and life experiences causes you to feel that the best course of action is to attack them, then your Will isn't a defense to prevent that. Your Will bonus is representing how quickly you come to that realization, stay true to your self, and begin the attack.
So depending on the circumstances, a Will save for initiative can make sense.
But rolling a high will save would mean they are maintaining control and NOT attacking, which is the opposite of what the op wants.You could possibly use Will save bonus. It is on the same scale and guaranteed to be at least trained.this is the best fit imo. It matches the narrative of trying, and possibly failing, to control oneself when provoked. And it would be affected by penalties to one's Will save, which usually represent a reduction in wits and self control, like from stupefied or Bon MotNot necessarily.
Your Will defense is to stay true to yourself. To avoid being controlled by someone else through means magical or mundane.
Now, there certainly is an argument that someone saying something to you that puts you into an unthinking state and causes you to attack would be protected by a Will save, and that doing well at the Will save means that you keep control of yourself and don't rise to the bait.
However, if what the person says combined with your own personality and life experiences causes you to feel that the best course of action is to attack them, then your Will isn't a defense to prevent that. Your Will bonus is representing how quickly you come to that realization, stay true to your self, and begin the attack.
So depending on the circumstances, a Will save for initiative can make sense.
I don’t see it, mainlt because saves are defense. You could use it maybe to get the will to attack if an exterior source was trying to suppress it, but not for initiative. I’m thinking of the fight between Biff Tannen and George McFly toward the end of Back to the Future there.
If you were going to use a save make it Reflex because someone in a blind rage is operating on instinct and reflex.
Reflex save for fighting on reflex, sure. Assuming you aren't using perception or a skill instead.
Will save for fighting on instinct. It is the only save based on a mental stat.
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I think you're mistaking the term blind in this situation to mean something it does not.
When someone has a blackout emotional/rage event they aren't actually unaware of their surroundings or senses while they're in the midst of it, if anything those senses are actually heightened. What is actually going on in these situations is that their emotive state they lose awareness of their OWN actions and their mind fails to recall what they did during such an event, during it they are fully able to handle, move, and sense their environment and they are functionally just unable/unwilling to analyze on a critical level the meaning or consequences of their actions. Somebody having a blackout rage episode who acts out isn't unable to see, hear, or react to their environment and wouldn't walk into a pole or wall because of their state, it's just that they won't have a clear picture of events AFTER it happens or be able really to explain/justify them.
Perception is the right call here but I would advise that conflating this kind of disassociation during emotional outbursts with simply being truly enraged (even for a barb) doesn't really make that much sense given that kind of thing usually only occurs in individuals with serious mental or personality disorders rather than the average joe who is just really really angry. If this person wants to play into that type of individual then, in all seriousness, they shouldn't play a barb at all as they are undeniably able to far better control of their mental state and emotions than most everyone else in the setting given that they can willingly "turn on/off" their intense emotional state of rage which is actually an extraordinary ability that most of humanity is literally incapable of doing without serious meditative training and therapy.