Nonlethal, Sneak Attack and Damage Reduction.

[Melkiador]

Quote:

With a weapon that deals nonlethal damage (like a sap, whip, or an unarmed strike), a rogue can make a sneak attack that deals nonlethal damage instead of lethal damage. She cannot use a weapon that deals lethal damage to deal nonlethal damage in a sneak attack, not even with the usual –4 penalty.

If I am using a sword to deal nonlethal damage and I have sneak attack, is the sneak attack damage lethal or is there no sneak attack damage?

If the sneak attack damage is lethal, while the weapon damage is nonlethal, how does this apply to damage reduction?

[zza ni]

As the text you brought mention:
"She cannot use a weapon that deals lethal damage to deal nonlethal damage in a sneak attack, not even with the usual –4 penalty."

As it stand if you use a lethal weapon and perform a sneak attack you can not deal non lethal damage with it. it doesn't say you can not do a sneak but rather when you sneak with said weapon it doesn't deal non lethal even if you take a -4.

basically you are trying to do two opposite things. one is hit him as lightly as you can to not kill him and another to hit a vital point for extra lethal attack. the rules state that the sneak attack would overrule the non lethal attempt in this case.

to quote Belgarion :
"How can you stab someone 'just a little'?!"

[Azothath]

Melkiador wrote:

Quote:

With a weapon that deals nonlethal damage (like a sap, whip, or an unarmed strike), a rogue can make a sneak attack that deals nonlethal damage instead of lethal damage. She cannot use a weapon that deals lethal damage to deal nonlethal damage in a sneak attack, not even with the usual –4 penalty.

If I am using a sword to deal nonlethal damage and I have sneak attack, is the sneak attack damage lethal or is there no sneak attack damage?

If the sneak attack damage is lethal, while the weapon damage is nonlethal, how does this apply to damage reduction?

logically

weapon(nonlethal) -(can/may)-> sneak(nonlethal). consider the contrapositive
cannot use weapon(lethal) to do sneak(nonlethal). see Unc Rogue, Searing Beacon trait

so when using a sword(lethal) to do nonlethal at -4 penalty they still do lethal with the sneak(precision) damage OR a Home Game GM can rule that they can not perform a sneak attack for precision damage (depends on how they read that text but Searing Beacon argues otherwise but RAW is not uniformly consistent). So the choice is to do sneak or not, otherwise use a nonlethal weapon with sneak.
Apply damage reduction as usual.
===
FYI foils have a tip sensor set to 500g, the force needed to pierce the skin. So that would be just a bit of stabbity. LoL.

[zza ni]

na the rules state that you can not do a non lethal attack with a lethal weapon along with a sneak attack.
It simply can't be used in a non lethal way, even if taking -4. the moment you make it a sneak it automatically make the attack lethal. (only way around this is a more specific rule, say using the 'merciful' magical weapon ability)

[Diego Rossi]

Azothath wrote:

FYI foils have a tip sensor set to 500g, the force needed to pierce the skin. So that would be just a bit of stabbity. LoL.

So every time I get a paper cut at work I am applying 500 g or more of pressure? Weird.

[Melkiador]

zza ni wrote:

basically you are trying to do two opposite things. one is hit him as lightly as you can to not kill him and another to hit a vital point for extra lethal attack. the rules state that the sneak attack would overrule the non lethal attempt in this case.

You could power attack and deal non lethal damage though. So, it's not like there aren't other ways to hurt someone a little by a lot.

[zza ni]

the reasoning were my own and as such might be faulty.

the rules stay the same non the less.
If you perform a sneak attack with a lethal weapon you can not deal non-lethal damage in the same attack.

also i'm not sure power attack works with non-lethal damage at all:
"The bonus damage does not apply to touch attacks or effects that do not deal hit point damage"

I think:
[Non-lethal damage =\= hit point damage].
If such case is true then the reasoning from above are double checked.

[TxSam88]

Diego Rossi wrote:

Azothath wrote:

FYI foils have a tip sensor set to 500g, the force needed to pierce the skin. So that would be just a bit of stabbity. LoL.

So every time I get a paper cut at work I am applying 500 g or more of pressure? Weird.

the force needed to pierce the skin with that weapons, it would vary depending on the surface area of the weapon used....