So Whips of Spiders is pretty neato imo, but as I was reading it I wanted to make sure I understood something.
"You can wield this object as if it were an actual whip, except you make a melee touch attack with it instead of a regular attack."
So question #1: If I understand, a regular whip has a reach of 15ft. Would that mean my spider whip has the same range?
Question #2: It says specifically 'you make a melee touch attack', and so my question is that until the spell fades and the whip disappears, couldn't I use a Melee Touch Attack spell and deliver it via my whip?
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1) "You summon hundreds of Diminutive spiders, which cling together in the form of a whip made for a creature of your size." so, yes, it works as a whip for a creature of your size, reach included.
2) No, it doesn't say it can deliver spells. A melee touch attack simply targets a specific kind of AC that disregards armor and natural armor. Most spells that have an attack roll target natural armor, but attacks that target natural armor aren't necessarily a way to deliver spells.
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So question #1: If I understand, a regular whip has a reach of 15ft. Would that mean my spider whip has the same range?Yes.
Question #2: It says specifically 'you make a melee touch attack', and so my question is that until the spell fades and the whip disappears, couldn't I use a Melee Touch Attack spell and deliver it via my whip?No. It is wielded like a normal whip but it is still not a normal whip. This means things that would apply to attacking with a whip apply to it: Weapon Focus, Whip Mastery, or Weapon Finesse to use Dex instead of Str for attacking. You would add your Str to damage (but not Strength and 1/2 for two-handing it). It provokes an AoO when you attack with it (like making a ranged attack). It doesn't threaten (unless you have a feat that applies to whips that allows that).
im like 99% sure they dont get str to damage with this spell , just "Any creature you strike with the whip takes swarm damage as if it were attacked by a spider swarm (1d6 points of damage plus poison and distraction)." they dont take whip damage, they ONLY take spider swarm damage as listed
The spell does have the same reach as a whip of your size.
The only way you can deliver a spell with the spider whip is if you are a magus using spellstrike. The spell does not give a non-magus spellstrike. Both casting a spell and making an attack are usually standard actions. Most of the time you cannot do both in the same round.
Any creature you strike with the whip takes swarm damage as if it were attacked by a spider swarm (1d6 points of damage plus poison and distraction).
So I don’t think any outside damage modifiers would apply. Bonus damage like sneak attack would probably get to count.
And I think if you had spellstrike, you probably could use this to deliver a touch spell.
Spellstrike (Su): At 2nd level, whenever a magus casts a spell with a range of “touch” from the magus spell list, he can deliver the spell through any weapon he is wielding as part of a melee attack.
You can wield this object as if it were an actual whip
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im like 99% sure they dont get str to damage with this spell , just "Any creature you strike with the whip takes swarm damage as if it were attacked by a spider swarm (1d6 points of damage plus poison and distraction)." they dont take whip damage, they ONLY take spider swarm damage as listedI was inclined to lean that route, but when I compare it to a spell like flame blade, which creates a 'sword-like beam' which you wield 'like a scimitar', and is a melee touch attack; that one specifies directly that it deals no Strength damage because the blade is immaterial.
I can't say that whip of spiders doesn't allow Strength bonus when its 'whip' isn't immaterial and the wording doesn't say so when similarly worded spells do state it.
takes swarm damage
The swarms damage doesn't add str to damage
it doesn't do whip damage at all, which is where you would normally add str to damage.
I am curious if it can crit. I assume the intent was that it could but not sure how “swarm damage” interacts with criticals.
I am curious if it can crit. I assume the intent was that it could but not sure how “swarm damage” interacts with criticals.
Good question.
Critting requires an attack roll. Swarms don't use an attack roll. But the whip of spiders does use an attack roll. But then we come back to the damage the whip does "swarm damage". I'd think the whip cannot crit because swarms cannot crit - or at least the swarm damage portion of it cannot crit. A spellstrike hit could cause a crit for the applied spell though. At least that's how I would rule it.
A swarm may not be able to critical, but that is because does not require an attack roll. There is no swarm damage type it is just really normal damage with special rules on how it is applied. Since none of those rules applies it should be able to score a critical hit. The critical hit with spider whip would be managing to hit a spot that is not covered or is particularly sensitive.
Basically, you get what the spell says you do, no more, no less. It does not get STR damage because it is a spell, and those normally do not get STR damage. Spells requiring an attack roll can get a critical hit.
A swarm may not be able to critical, but that is because does not require an attack roll. There is no swarm damage type it is just really normal damage with special rules on how it is applied. Since none of those rules applies it should be able to score a critical hit. The critical hit with spider whip would be managing to hit a spot that is not covered or is particularly sensitive.
Basically, you get what the spell says you do, no more, no less. It does not get STR damage because it is a spell, and those normally do not get STR damage. Spells requiring an attack roll can get a critical hit.
I find myself in total agreement with this interpretation. As for how to explain how the 'critical' might work I'd probably explain it narratively as the whip wrapping around the target as part of the strike, leaving even more of the target's parts exposed to the strike (swarm) than normal.
So I got my answer, it is makes sense: it's the Magus's whole schtick to be able to hit with a spell-imbued weapon. I was just somehow thinking that a spell with a Melee Touch Attack meant that the whip made by the spell could do it. Must have been tired.
Anyway, I found a snake whip spell from a third party that does what I was hoping to accomplish without needing to be a Magus, but it has inspired a new character build.