So what do people think? It seems weaker than any previous list (other than the old elementalist one), but are there any tricks you can pull with it? Is it pure blaster?
The elementalism list is sub optimal, the problem is that all those spells appear on the primal or arcane list, both of which are far superior to the elementalism list.
You are picking the elementalist archetype for the feats, which are not great, but it has flavor. not every character play has to be optimal, the list is weaker than either arcane or primal, but it is still very functional.
if a divine or occult only caster like a bard or cleric could take it, that would be interesting, because those classes can't get most of those spells on that list, it would interesting.
So what do people think? It seems weaker than any previous list (other than the old elementalist one), but are there any tricks you can pull with it? Is it pure blaster?The elementalism list is sub optimal, the problem is that all those spells appear on the primal or arcane list, both of which are far superior to the elementalism list.
You are picking the elementalist archetype for the feats, which are not great, but it has flavor. not every character play has to be optimal, the list is weaker than either arcane or primal, but it is still very functional.
if a divine or occult only caster like a bard or cleric could take it, that would be interesting, because those classes can't get most of those spells on that list, it would interesting.
A Storm Oracle who could use spells off of the wind and water parts of the elemental list would be kind of neat.
So what do people think? It seems weaker than any previous list (other than the old elementalist one), but are there any tricks you can pull with it? Is it pure blaster?
Sorry I can't bring myself to try. It is such a terrible nerf of the primal list. Loses Slow, Haste, Heal, Fear, Chain Lightning ... and gains spells that no one wants or they already had good options for.
It still has spells that blast, grab, make walls and terrain, extra senses and moves. You can use it if you want to.
I'd much rather play a Druid, Primal Sorcerer or a Kineticist. They are much better choices in this space.
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another shortcoming
no spells with only the electric trait, like chain lightning. lighting spells should have both the air and electricity traits.
unless there are using another medium for example copper wiring, all lightning spells in this game should have the air trait.
With the remaster adding elemental tags to a handful of formerly generic utility spells, there's definitely some improvements to the list that are kind of nice to have.
I think it still largely suffers the same problem as before though where so much of the list is taken straight from Primal and Arcane that it doesn't feel like it offers anything novel.
It ends up mostly defined by the things you lose rather than what you gain, since what you gain is just a couple more elemental blasts (which you were already good at).
I feel like Elementalist would be much more interesting if any class could take it.
Elementalist Bard or Cleric would still be a big downgrade, but at least it would be a novel way to play the class. Whereas the most notable thing about the Elementalist Druid is that you don't have Slow or Heal anymore.
For something a little bit rant-ier:
Like, all due respect but I cannot fathom the conversation being had at Paizo where they were discussing how to make a dedicated elemental blaster archetype with an extremely restrictive spell list where somewhere in that conversation it was decided Cone of Cold and Chain Lightning, two of the most iconic elemental blasting spells in the whole g*%&%*n game, needed to be off limits.
It almost feels like the archetype was designed intentionally to be a failure
With the remaster adding elemental tags to a handful of formerly generic utility spells, there's definitely some improvements to the list that are kind of nice to have.
I think it still largely suffers the same problem as before though where so much of the list is taken straight from Primal and Arcane that it doesn't feel like it offers anything novel.
It ends up mostly defined by the things you lose rather than what you gain, since what you gain is just a couple more elemental blasts (which you were already good at).
It would be so easy to get it right.
They could have created a new Slow/Haste/Heal spell with an Elemental special effect and kept it. They don't have to be identical copies, just a bit similar. Say hindering stone weights, jet powered limbs, soothing waters. Likewise with Chain Lightning if they really must remove all electrical effets then they could have made some sort of infectious fire version. Fear is perhaps a bit harder to do but maybe you could justify it as a sonic auditory haunting type effect.
Then 90% of the objections would melt away.
With the remaster adding elemental tags to a handful of formerly generic utility spells, there's definitely some improvements to the list that are kind of nice to have.
I think it still largely suffers the same problem as before though where so much of the list is taken straight from Primal and Arcane that it doesn't feel like it offers anything novel.
It ends up mostly defined by the things you lose rather than what you gain, since what you gain is just a couple more elemental blasts (which you were already good at).
I feel like Elementalist would be much more interesting if any class could take it.
Elementalist Bard or Cleric would still be a big downgrade, but at least it would be a novel way to play the class. Whereas the most notable thing about the Elementalist Druid is that you don't have Slow or Heal anymore.
For something a little bit rant-ier:
** spoiler omitted **
I don't think it was an intentional oversight, I don't think most people know that you need an atmosphere to produce lightning. Hopefully in the remaster they will rectify the oversight as with cone of cold.
I don't think it was an intentional oversight, I don't think most people know that you need an atmosphere to produce lightning. Hopefully in the remaster they will rectify the oversight as with cone of cold.With the remaster adding elemental tags to a handful of formerly generic utility spells, there's definitely some improvements to the list that are kind of nice to have.
I think it still largely suffers the same problem as before though where so much of the list is taken straight from Primal and Arcane that it doesn't feel like it offers anything novel.
It ends up mostly defined by the things you lose rather than what you gain, since what you gain is just a couple more elemental blasts (which you were already good at).
I feel like Elementalist would be much more interesting if any class could take it.
Elementalist Bard or Cleric would still be a big downgrade, but at least it would be a novel way to play the class. Whereas the most notable thing about the Elementalist Druid is that you don't have Slow or Heal anymore.
For something a little bit rant-ier:
** spoiler omitted **Yeah I agree.
I suppose elementalist does get sets of spells that arcane and primal don't get together. Like volcanic eruption and beheading buzz saw. The former is primal, the latter arcane.
But losing healing, haste, and slow is pretty painful.
Would it be overpowered if you just added all spells of an elemental trait to the divine list as suggested above, do people think?
It really wouldn't make sense for most elemental spells to be on either the divine or occult list. The rule does makes perfect sense.
it's really more about the class feats not making enough for what you give up.
if you want to be an elemental spell caster being a just a plain wizard, sorc or druid is more effective.
if you want to be a purely elemental blaster, I think the kinicist is a superior option.
currently the archetype is just a role-playing option, there really isn't any mechanical benefit at all for picking the archtype.