So, mono-element Kineticists can get composite impulses via the Elemental Overlap class feat at level 8, which has the prerequisite of "exactly one kinetic element".
Technically, you can fork the fork the path at level 9... what happens then? You suddenly have two elements, yet you already "purchased" the feat and composite impulse one level earlier. Does your feat/impulse stop working? Or does "I got this earlier" trump the prerequisite of the feat?
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I think this requires clarification in the form of errata. Since when this has been brought up before opinions ranged from "totally legitimate, it's a prerequisite not a postrequisite" to "you lose access to the composite blast and have to retrain the feat."
My instinct would be to treat this exactly like someone who has the Halcyon Speaker Archetype who gets expelled from the Magaambya, thus invalidating that prerequisite. If the ex-Magaambyan keeps their Halcyon spells, then the ex-mono-element kineticist should keep their composite.
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Losing a prerequisite for something you already have is only covered in the rules under retraining, since that's the only way it's been possible before. In that case of retraining into not meeting a prerequisite, you cannot use a feat that you don't meet the prereq for, anymore.
This case isn't retraining, but I would still suggest that you not expect to be able to use that ability in this case, since the only rules we have addressing the concept of "lost prerequisites" at all are those ones.
This would be a perfect moment for one of the developers of the book to speak up and straight out tell us what their intent of design was with the feat. :p
Errata will probably only drop in a year or so, I'd love to see this resolved a bit earlier, since I presume a lot of new Kineticists will be created around now and people will want to know if their late-multielement Kineticists are viable or not.
Losing a prerequisite for something you already have is only covered in the rules under retraining, since that's the only way it's been possible before.
Incorrect. It's been possible since at least the Lost Omens World Guide as the Hellknight Armiger archetype has as a prerequisite "member of a Hellknight Order" and you can absolutely get kicked out of the Hellknights by, for example, doing a bunch of crimes, freeing everybody from the prison, fomenting social unrest, and promoting revolution against a lawful government.
It just hasn't come up much, since people don't usually take archetypes related to organizations with the intention of getting kicked out of those organizations.
Losing a prerequisite for something you already have is only covered in the rules under retraining, since that's the only way it's been possible before.Incorrect. It's been possible since at least the Lost Omens World Guide as the Hellknight Armiger archetype has as a prerequisite "member of a Hellknight Order" and you can absolutely get kicked out of the Hellknights by, for example, doing a bunch of crimes and promoting revolution against a lawful government.
It just hasn't come up much, since people don't usually take archetypes related to organizations with the intention of getting kicked out of those organizations.
Ok, that is accurate. I was thinking of mechanical character option prerequisites and RP prerequisites as separate things (since violating them really is something that happens very differently, not because the rules actually draw a line between them), and the latter have been possible to lose without Retraining. It is still accurate, though, that the only "what if you lose the prerequisite?" rules are the ones under retraining. And I'd still say that planning to lose a prerequisite and expecting to keep the things it was prerequisite for doesn't make sense and shouldn't be expected to work, with the rules that do exist saying what they say.
In the absence of official clarification I think this is a "GM has to make a call" thing. Here are some potential house rules all of which I think would be acceptable compromise positions.
1. You have to retrain the feat, but you immediately retrain it to be a composite blast for the two elements you have now.
2. You get to immediately retrain the feat to any other feat you could have taken at 8th level.
3. Change the prerequisite to "At least 2 gate junctions with a single element" Change the prerequisite for elemental transformation to "at least 3 gate junctions with a single element." This is the same as "mono element" at 8th and 10th levels, and isn't a thing you can lose.
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Sounds like a dead feat to me, similar to taking a skill feat that you acquire at a later time from another source.
That being said, I don't really see the relevance of the requirement being that "you have exactly one element," when the feat's intention is to let you acquire and use a composite impulse that you otherwise couldn't use before (due to requiring one or more additional elements), and this isn't a feat available prior to 5th level, where we get our first option to Expand the Portal or Fork the Path.
Maybe to make single gate characters more viable without forcing them into multiple elements? If so, instead implementing a requirement of "You have not chosen to Fork the Path" with a special "You may no longer select Fork the Path as an option for the Gate Expansion feature once you acquire this feat," would better convey this, since it's otherwise a matter of finagling/cheesing requirements. And making it available at 4th and not 8th would make more sense, since it is already restricted to feats at levels below which you took the feat, and also doesn't permit these shenanigans to take place to begin with.
Some people just don't understand the Ambiguous Rules rule or why it exists and was printed front and center before any other specific rules.
Just let them continue tilting at windmills and best of luck to them convincing the other players at their table.
Here are some potential house rules all of which I think would be acceptable compromise positions.
...
2. You get to immediately retrain the feat to any other feat you could have taken at 8th level.
Takes another monoelement feat with the same problem. :P
While we still don't get an errata I just ignoring this pre-requisite like it was a typo made from the old playtest concept where you choose if you will be single, dual or universal in the first level. Because in the end allow Elemental Overlap and Elemental Transformation won't break the Kineticist or the game at all.
Including the Elemental Transformation is also broken to Wood and Metal elements.