Ascetic style requires weapon focus with a weapon from the monk weapon group.
If I had Modified Weapon Proficiency (katana), and weapon focus (katana), could I get ascetic style, with the chosen weapon being "versatile design katana", and use use a monk katana with the feats?
I want the chosen weapon to be katana, so I can still use it with Ascetic Form, not just Ascetic Style.
Okay. A nodachi, modified, requires exotic weapon Prof. You take that feat, then weapon focus in Modified (monk) Nodachi. All modified (monk) nodachis ARE in the monk weapon group.
It's not in the blog list as being native to monk weapons, but that's because all modified weapons can be in different groups.
A weapon group is a property of a weapon, not an ability of the wielder.
The katana is in the monk weapon group, as printed in the books?
As it isn't there, having weapon focus in it doesn't work with Ascetic style.
I'm not sure this is correct.
Choose one weapon from the monk fighter weapon group.
When versatile design is added to a weapon, choose a fighter weapon group. The modified weapon is considered to be a weapon of that weapon group (such as for the fighter’s weapon training class feature).
The 500 gp spent on the Versatile Design mod makes said katana a Monk weapon.
The PC then invests two (presumably; three if they are not an Unchained Monk) feats to gain proficiency with this Monk katana.
The PC then invests another feat to gain Weapon Focus with this Monk katana.
Why does that not satisfy Ascetic Style's requirement?
Yeah, the whole thing hinges on using the versatile design modification to add the weapon to the monk group.
It works, but only because of how that thing functions.
I suspect Diego didn't realize that was the OP's plan because it wasn't explained well, until you explained what I believe the OP is actually trying to do.
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Mostly it's because I don't recall well the stuff in Armory 2. I consider it a splatbook and the rules about weapon and armor customization as available only with the GM's permission.
If the GM allows those rules, only the specific, modified weapon is part of the group. That can create some problems when you try to buy an enchanted version. Every magic shop having an enchanted version of your customized weapon it too much of a stretch of credibility for my tastes.
What you need is proficiency with the katana (from another class, or the Exotic Weapon Proficiency feat), either Modified Weapon Proficiency or Weapon Adept, Weapon Focus, Ascetic Style, and Ascetic Form.
The 500 gp spent on the Versatile Design mod makes said katana a Monk weapon.
Your ultimate point is correct, but a "Monk weapon" is a weapon with a monk special property, whereas Versatile Design makes it a weapon in the monk weapon group. That is a very important distinction.
Although Ascetic Style asks for the latter, which is why you still need Ascetic Form to actually flurry with the weapon.
Every magic shop having an enchanted version of your customized weapon it too much of a stretch of credibility for my tastes.
Not an issue, as you can modify existing weapons. You don't even need a skill check or anything.
Correct, Derklord—thanks for the catch!
All said, the amount of investment to get it to work isn't really worth it.
Much better just using a weapon off the monk weapon group and calling it a katana instead. Nine ring broadsword is a pretty good choice from what I remember.
Or, if the goal is to get a weapon with an 18-20 critical range, and the Unchained Monk is an option, the waveblade is a suitable substitute. If the damage die is more of a thing, then the nine-section whip and the temple sword are also worth looking at.
I thought about a large sized waveblade (looking for something I can two-hand), but even then, waveblade isn't in the monk fighter group. With the ascetic feats, I can use my unarmed damage for the base damage anyway, but you can't two hand power attack with a light weapon.
And even then, that's a -2 penalty I'd have to pay 4k gold to get rid of.
None of it worked, so I'm trying something new. And yeah, I really want that 18-20 crit range.
EDITED TO ADD: It IS a lot of work to make it work, but if I'm burning 1 ki point each turn to dimensional dervish, I'd like to get some back through Ki Leech, if I can. Plus, with Dimensional Savant and Outflank (plus a menacing weapon and a trait for flanking), I'd get +7 to hit when flanking with myself, and anytime I crit, I get an attack of opportunity. With Improved critical, a 15-20 threatens a crit about 1/3 of the timme, compared to 17-20 when threatens 1/5 of the time. Kinda worth the work, if I can do it.
Odd... the waveblade has the "Monk" property on the table, but not in its own entry.
Plus, with Dimensional Savant and Outflank (plus a menacing weapon and a trait for flanking), I'd get +7 to hit when flanking with myself, and anytime I crit, I get an attack of opportunity. With Improved critical, a 15-20 threatens a crit about 1/3 of the timme, compared to 17-20 when threatens 1/5 of the time. Kinda worth the work, if I can do it.
Five feats to flurry with it, another five for Dimensional Savant + prereqs and Outflank. You'd have to wait until 19th level to make this work (17th for Human).
You shouldn't really need the crit range just to trigger Ki Leech more often, even if you don't abuse it (like CdGing armored downed enemies with a whip, or dueling armored party mermbers with a whip, or killing critters like rats, or keeping an unconscious creature with regeneration in your backpack to attack whenever you need ki).
Odd... the waveblade has the "Monk" property on the table, but not in its own entry.
??? Where then hell are you looking?
I was under the impression that you can count yourself as "an ally", in Pathfinder. Normally, this combo wouldn't work, because you're not flanking with yourself. With Dimensional Savant, though, you are. Think there was a post about it a while ago, and that was the general consensus of those present, but I don't know if it's raw legal or not.
And they're probably looking at the SRD. It has waveblades mentioned as being in the monk fighter group, I believe. Either the srd, or the Archives of nethys, I don't remember.
EDITED TO ADD: One level dip in Crusader Cleric gives proficiency and weapon focus with a katana. Being a human, two level dip in fighter (will eventually be three, so that weapon master and the magic gloves buff me even more), and having my katana have the Training magic weapon ability, I'm able to get all the requisite feats by level 13, including Combat Reflexes so that I can AoO more than once a round. And still have enough left over for Extra Vested Power (Divine Power), Medusa's Wrath, Improved Critical (Katana), and Power Attack. I could just as easy trade out the Training enhancement for Keen, and be in the same place, though.
I agree it's up to interpretation. My arguments are that the critical hit throws and enemy off just enough to allow an opening that a flanking ally gets to come in and attack. As I'm able to teleport up to a couple times per second at later levels, I'm assuming that opening would still be there for me if I teleported there.
But I'd get it if a GM vetoed it. Either way.
Yeah, I wouldn't hinge your build on outflank working, that said everything else would and Outflank is only a +2 and AoO chance.
An alternative idea that would work and be less fiddley (maybe) is the Iron Caster™. You play a fighter, and when you get access to Advanced Weapon Training options at level 5. You could also play a weapon master archetype fighter and get it a level earlier. Probably one of the better ways to build is Weapon Master Fighter 4, Brawler 1 (because you also want Martial Flexibility). Also take Combat Stamina if allowed.
Ultimately you use the Item Mastery fighter advanced weapon training option, it allows you to use your weapon to cast any of the options of Item Mastery feats you have, which you can use martial flexibility to pick up on the fly, switching out which options you have (but Conjuration Item Mastery/Teleportation gets you Dimension Door, and you might want to specifically select that feat instead of grabbing it via martial flexibility). Then pickup the Dimensional Dervish and other feats as you like. And now you can also use basically any weapon.
Congrarts!
Link to a more detailed guide than what I've written.
Odd... the waveblade has the "Monk" property on the table, but not in its own entry.??? Where then hell are you looking?
Ignore me, I think my brain was addled yesterday!
I agree it's up to interpretation. My arguments are that the critical hit throws and enemy off just enough to allow an opening that a flanking ally gets to come in and attack. As I'm able to teleport up to a couple times per second at later levels, I'm assuming that opening would still be there for me if I teleported there.
The issue is not really the in-game logic, but rather that something called a "teamwork" feats functionign while being solo very much "makes no sense". The FAQ is trying to compensate for the sad fact that the game doesn't differentiate between "ally" (including yourself) and "other ally" (excluding yourself). If it did, I can say with confidence that there would be no teamwork feat that could be made to work solo.
There is a reason Solo Tactics is a class feature.
Solo tactics lets you treat allies as if they had your teamwork feats, it doesn't let you act as your own ally for teamwork feats… quite honestly acting as your own ally for teamwork feats is VERY overpowered with a few teamwork feats… coincidentally the same list of teamwork feats that Solo Tactics doesn’t actually work with, plus Paired Opportunist…
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Putting my GM hat on and making a ruling for my table:
With the single-PC Dimensional Savant and Outflank combo I would allow the flanking bonus increase to +4. I would not allow the AoO.
Reasoning: Dimensional Savant allows you to provide flanking from every square you teleport to until the start of your next turn AND explicitly allows you to flank with yourself. Basically you are moving so quickly you are distracting the enemies. If you have Outflank, you know how to increase that distraction and take advantage of it. So, +4.
However the AoO would not happen because it’s effectively “instantaneous.” There is no one in position to take advantage of the shock of the critical at the instant it happens.
Another way of looking at it: Let’s say you have dimensional savant and outflank and finish by teleporting away from the enemy. Then a teammate who also has Outflank moves up into a position where one of your savant positions provides a flank. Should they get the +4? Yes, because they are flanking with you (even though you are no longer there). If they crit, does someone get an AoO? No, because you are no longer there, and your teammate can’t take it himself.