You can wield your esoterica in the same hand as your implement.
You can wield your scrolls in the same hand as your implement with Scroll Thaumaturgy.
Can you wield your esoterica and your scrolls in the same hand? How about in the same hand as your implement?
Yes, yes, no [nothing allows you to use a scroll and esoterica in the same hand]: just remember that as long as the scroll is in hand, you lose Implement's Empowerment.
I don't think you actually wield esoterica.
You keep esoterica worn like tools. You can draw and use them as part of an action that needs them. But I don't see anything in the First Implement and Esoterica block in Thaumaturge, or in the Esoterica trait that indicates that you keep them in hand for longer than the action that needs them.
It is very similar to Material Components for spellcasting. They are worn and used. Not wielded.
-----
But that aside aside...
Yes, you can hold a scroll in one hand and still use esoterica in that same hand for an action that requires esoterica.
And yes, that hand can also be holding an implement.
Hmm...one does not appear like the other.
I ask because I am considering Duelist Dedication and some of its follow up feats on my (weapon implement) thaumaturge, so having at least one hand free is rather important.
|
You can wield your esoterica in the same hand as your implement.
Yes, but it's kinda vague whether you have to keep holding them after using them for an ability, or whether they're more like individual bits of spell component that are used up when employed, but there's more in the (worn) bag.
I don't see any esoterica feats that require you to keep holding on to the esoterica after causing the initial effect.
You can wield your scrolls in the same hand as your implement with Scroll Thaumaturgy.
Yes. Although scrolls aren't on the list of things you're allowed to hold in hand for implement's empowerment.
Can you wield your esoterica and your scrolls in the same hand? How about in the same hand as your implement?
Normally you can only hold 1 thing in hand.
- You can hold B in the same hand as A- You can hold C in the same hand as A
- The rule saying you can only hold one thing hasn't disappeared, so you can't hold B and C in the same hand.
Can you now hold B and C in the same hand as long as you have A in hand too? The writing isn't mathematically precise enough to decide that.
However as I said before, I think it's not necessary to keep holding esoterica, so I don't think the problem really exists.
|
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
1) Using a shield with shield boss/spike as weapon implement, as spikes/boss are weapons ( make the shield a weapon ).
I don't think a shield spike/boss makes the shield a weapon. It's a weapon on top of the shield, but the shield is still just a shield. (Which isn't on the implement empowerment guest list.)
It's important to differentiate between generic scrolls you can use via Scroll Thaumaturgy (and which do not count as Esoterica) and temporary scrolls gained via Scroll Esoterica (which, as the name says, do).
A low-level Thaumaturge/Duelist shouldn't have too many difficulties as long as they activate Dueling Parry after using the scroll. Things get messy later when you add a 2nd Implement or Dueling Dance. It's easy to swap in an Implment when using it, but difficult to make it disappear. Except of course to use another Implement, which could be a Weapon Implement which you'd have to juggle/toggle in/out precisely, noting the Stance would end in most iterations.
Which is to say, you might be able to get some synergy for some abilities, but you're ultimately going to need to choose. Of course that choice could differ each battle or even each round, so that's still a lot of utility. Simply having a Duelist's defensive abilities alongside a Thaumaturge's one-handed damage is pretty darn significant, even if it trades off some abilities occasionally.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Hmm...one does not appear like the other.
You say that like it's an uncommon event here on the rules forum.
What I am looking at is that there are two points of value in this last sentence of Scroll Thaumaturgy:
You can draw and activate scrolls with the same hand holding an implement, much like you can for esoterica.
One is that you can use a scroll while you have your hands full of weapons and implements.
The other is that you can still use your implement while you draw and hold on to a scroll to use for later. Yes, you will lose Implement's Empowerment until you no longer hold the scroll. But that is only a tradeoff and only a meaningful one if you need to Strike something before casting or putting away the scroll.
And the intent of Esoterica and its ability to be used while also having your hands full, is that esoterica is for the flavor of random mystical items empower supernatural abilities - but without having any mechanical impact on what you can wield in your hands while fighting.
So with the balance considerations of Esoterica being that you can use it while you have your hands full and at least one of those hands is full of an implement, then you can still use your Esoterica - and the balance considerations of Scroll Thaumaturgy being that you can use scrolls while you have your hands full and at least one of those hands is full of an implement, then you can still use Scrolls... Then I don't see any good balance reason that you shouldn't be able to combine those. If you have your hands full (one being full of a requirement to have a hand completely empty) and one of those hands is holding an implement, then you should still be able to use both your Scrolls and Esoterica.
Shield are off-topic here.
It's easy to swap in an Implment when using it, but difficult to make it disappear.
Wut?
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
It's easy to swap in an Implment when using it, but difficult to make it disappear.Wut?
You can swap which implement you are holding as a free action when you are using one of the implement actions.
Storing an implement takes an action just like any other item that you are carrying.
|
|
Yeah, the relevant text is:
You've added another implement of power to your toolkit. You choose a second implement, which must be a different type of implement than your first. You gain the initiate benefit of your new implement.
While you're holding an implement in one hand, you can quickly switch it with another implement you're wearing to use an action from the implement you're switching to. To do so, you can Interact as a free action immediately before executing the implement's action. This allows you to meet requirements of having an implement in hand to use its action. For example, if you had your lantern implement in one hand, a weapon in the other, and a chalice implement you were wearing, you could swap your lantern for your chalice to use its reaction.
This only gives you the free switch. If you weren't holding any implements, this doesn't make drawing one free. Nor does it make pocketing one without drawing another any faster.
This only gives you the free switch. If you weren't holding any implements, this doesn't make drawing one free.
Well at least I will continue to get mileage out of my Quick Draw feat.
It's easy to swap in an Implment when using it, but difficult to make it disappear.Wut?You can swap which implement you are holding as a free action when you are using one of the implement actions.
Storing an implement takes an action just like any other item that you are carrying.
Passive implements are kinda SoL here though since they don't have discrete actions. Switching from X to Regalia to make a Demoralize check is 2-3 actions instead of 1 like other implements (unless you choose to treat associate skill actions as implement actions which I think is a good way to make these items feel less punitive but isn't something every GM will allow).
Passive implements are kinda SoL here though since they don't have discrete actions. Switching from X to Regalia to make a Demoralize check is 2-3 actions instead of 1 like other implements (unless you choose to treat associate skill actions as implement actions which I think is a good way to make these items feel less punitive but isn't something every GM will allow).
Yeah. I am actually hoping that it gets errata for that. It really should be a free switch for any action that requires a specific implement. Whether that is a unique action from the implement or any standard action that uses the implement - including skill actions like Demoralize from Regalia or Recall Knowledge from Tome, and even including Strike from Weapon.
That could be included in the necessary errata for allowing the free switch action to work when it isn't your turn so that it can officially be used for reaction abilities like Amulet's Abeyance.
You can swap implements along with reaction abilities. It's mentioned under Second Implement:
The example shows a character being able to do it. But the rules don't actually support that. You can't use a free action when it isn't your turn unless the free action has a trigger.
It is one of those persnickety rules technicalities where the RAW is wrong and everyone ignores it. But it should be fixed.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
The example shows a character being able to do it. But the rules don't actually support that.
I mean, if the rules say you can do it, then by definition the rules support it.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
The example shows a character being able to do it. But the rules don't actually support that.I mean, if the rules say you can do it, then by definition the rules support it.
If the rules say you can do it, and the rules say that you can't do it - then the rules are in conflict and need fixed.
Also, it isn't the rules that say that you can do it, it is the example that says that you can do it.
Sort of like the example of Focus points from multiple sources where the example says that you gain a second focus point from Healing Touch even though Healing Touch doesn't actually say that.
So if an example is in conflict with the rules, wouldn't the rule take precedence? We really don't want examples being given the same weight as the actual rules because examples aren't going to be exhaustive.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I agree, rules are more specific than examples.