Possession and Polymorph

[Oli Ironbar]

If I possess a person then cast alter-self, does the person I possess change appearance?

Looking for RAW and your opinion as player/GM.

Thanks!

[Mysterious Stranger]

The range of Alter Self is personal which mean you can only cast it on yourself. Possession allows you to project your soul into the body of another creature and control it. The body you are controlling is not you so you cannot cast Alter Self on it.

[Melkiador]

I'm pretty sure you can cast personal spells on your host body while using possession.

Using the rules for polymorph, I'd say you have a +10 on your disguise check to appear as someone else, though baseline you can't change yourself to look like any specific person, including your own body.

[Chell Raighn]

You absolutely can cast self target spells on the body of a possessed creature… there is no rule to the contrary and this exact thing has been done in official APs before even…

While you can’t use alter self to look like a specific individual, you can still define a similar appearance. The rules for polymorph do state you can control the fine details, you just cant get an exact specific appearance. Basically, it works like an AI art generator… you tell it some visual details and it interprets it… the results might look similar to what you wanted but always distinct enough to know it is not a specific individual. No matter how precise you think your parameters are, something will always be off in an uncanny or obvious way.

[Melkiador]

It might help to remember that "personal" is just a range. If you cast a spell with a range of 30 feet, would that be 30 feet from your real body or 30 feet from the body you are possessing?

[Chell Raighn]

Melkiador wrote:

It might help to remember that "personal" is just a range. If you cast a spell with a range of 30 feet, would that be 30 feet from your real body or 30 feet from the body you are possessing?

And targets are relative. Target Foe = enemies from your relative perspective, Target Allies = allies from your relative perspective, Target Self = your relative perspective of your self.

If you possess another body, your self is the body you are in control of. Your normal body is effectively a corpse while you possess another.

[Azothath]

Oli Ironbar wrote:

If I possess a person then cast Alter Self:T2, does the person I possess change appearance?

Looking for RAW and your opinion as player/GM.

Thanks!

only if you have the spell to cast it AND the body you are in has similar 'dexterous' appendages(for somatic), an articulate voice(for verbal), and the material components on hand (if any). 8^)

Usually you keep your mental ability scores and such but gain the target's physical abilities and such. See the spell for what you retain/gain or don't. Paizo has stated that they prefer Possession rather than Magic Jar.

Alter Self list of casters & Sp{SLAs}... the variance I see from a humanoid shape (not type) are dragons(highly magical), then others via SLAs moon dog(powerful outsiders, heralds), yaddithian(lol, mythos!), and...

fey giant toad on AoN:

Change Shape (Su) A fey creature can change shape into a single form. Possible forms include a normal specimen of its base creature, a humanoid creature within one size category, or an animal within one size category. In all cases, the fey creature appears as the same individual of its alternate form each time it changes shape. The type of polymorph spell used should be chosen as appropriate based on the alternate form, such as alter self for taking humanoid form. This ability can be selected more than once, granting an additional form each time.
>>> this update is from Bestiary 3 as the Fey Template from Bestiary 1 does not have this text.
=== end ===

"Spells Known"&"Alter Self" on AoN
Zalyakavat Rakshasa while it could have the spell it's done through Change Shape(Su).
Personally I don't support the "must have hands" rule from PFS for caster's & activators, but IT IS a simplification.

[Melkiador]

Azothath wrote:

Alter Self only works if you are (in a) humanoid and change into a humanoid.

I don't believe you actually have to be a humanoid to be affected by Alter Self. But the new form does indeed need to be a humanoid.