Wands / Potions of spells not part of any class list


Rules Questions


A cleric's Touch of Law counts as a 1st-level spell (FAQ) and you can use SLAs for satisfying the spell requisite when item crafting (FAQ).

Is there anything stopping a cleric from crafting a Wand of Touch of Law? Except the knowledge that you'd still need a DC 20 UMD check to use it (FAQ).

Liberty's Edge

CRB wrote:
In addition, you cannot create potions, spell-trigger, or spell-completion magic items without meeting their spell prerequisites.
CRB wrote:
The creator must have prepared the spell to be stored (or must know the spell, in the case of a sorcerer or bard) and must provide any focuses the spell requires. Fifty of each needed material component are required (one for each charge). Material components are consumed when work begins, but focuses are not. A focus used in creating a wand can be reused. The act of working on the wand triggers the prepared spell, making it unavailable for casting during each day devoted to the wand’s creation. (That is, that spell slot is expended from the caster’s currently prepared spells, just as if it had been cast.)

An SLA covers the requirement of knowing the spell as a requisite, but it doesn't cover the part where the spell slot is expended.


They do not count as spells; they have an effect spell level. This is only for interacting with other abilities that are based on spell level. I don’t have an example right now, but there are some things that only affect the ability based on its spell level. Most of the times these only affect actual spells, but some may affect SLAs.


@Deigo Rossi

The second FAQ in the OP applies to that situation.

Quote:

Spell-Like Abilities and Item Crafting: Can I use a spell-like ability for an item's spell requirement?

Yes. Core Rulebook page 461, Requirements section, paragraph 2 says, "A spell prerequisite may be provided by a character who has prepared the spell (or who knows the spell, in the case of a sorcerer or bard), or through the use of a spell completion or spell trigger magic item or a spell-like ability that produces the desired spell effect."
For example, a demon with the Craft Magic Arms and Armor feat and who has fireball as a spell-like ability can craft a +1 flaming sword, which has fireball as a prerequisite.

===

@Mysterious Stranger

The first FAQ linked explicitly used "counts" (in addition to effective level) but I'll rephrase the question:

Can you make a wand out of a spell that doesn't exist on a class list, if we know its effective spell level and can fulfill the spell requirement?

The Exchange

Wonderstell wrote:

A cleric's Touch of Law counts as a 1st-level spell (FAQ) and you can use SLAs for satisfying the spell requisite when item crafting (FAQ).

Is there anything stopping a cleric from crafting a Wand of Touch of Law? Except the knowledge that you'd still need a DC 20 UMD check to use it (FAQ).

As Mysterious Stranger said unique spell-like abilities (ones that aren't exact duplicates of spells) have an effective spell level, they aren't considered spells.

As a thought exercise - there are many, many, (Sp) abilities that don't duplicate spells. Trying to force this interpretation means you now have a lot of "class abilities as an item," which is something designers have said is a big no-no. Wand of Kineticist's Blast! Wand of Paladin's Divine Bond! Staff of Wizard's Arcane Bond?

Having said that - a GM can always allow any type of magic item to be created. This particular one would probably be best as a wondrous item though, not a wand. I haven't searched yet but the first step would be to see if there are any existing items that let you get a result of "10" on a roll, and price your item accordingly.


A wand, scroll, staff, or potion is a no go… but wonderous items are possible… there are a few wonderous items already that grant access to class features, one of the most well known is the Ring of Evasion.


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Law Domain

The FAQ says "counts as" and that is not the same as "is". So while it counts as a spell it is not an actual spell. My assumption would be the designer's didn't care to make it a spell (after 10 years) as they didn't want spellcasters to have access to it. Otherwise it is clear that giving it a spell level brings it in line with the general spell-like ability format and lets other interactions have a number to work with (see Dispel Magic, Antimagic Field).

There is the Ritual Invariability:T6 PCS:CoR. Only thing I found with similar wording for the effect. Some people might consider it a curse rather than lawful

Design wise things are hit or miss. These design choices hail from inception or roll-over from 3.5. Certainly if they had stuck to spells the effects would have been far more limited. There are clear differences between Su and Sp.

Divination school Diviner's Fortune (Sp) would create some real havoc if it were to pop up as a 10th level ring.

As there is no RAW way defined it falls to the Home GM. Rings and Ioun stones(Wondrous Item) tend to have strong abilities along with a high price.
Ring of Evasion $25000.
Ring of Terrible Cost $20000 gives a nice profane bonus similar to the Diviner's Fortune insight bonus. Vampiric Touch just supports the HP loss mechanic.
Ioun Stone: Silver Spindle $24000 {defined} First level spell as SLA(Cha) [3/d]. Note the resonance adjustment for racial Zero level spells (same for all 3).


If you can research a spell to do what you want to do, and make a wand of that, go ahead. But it's a GM decision what the spell level would be, or if there are any other requirements.


It is a good question and probably not the first time. Is there a "class ability as an item" designer quote? Usually the forum gets those to support doing stuff and I know they can go in different directions...


You can only make a wand or potion from an actual spell. A SLA that counts as a spell and has an effective level is still not a spell. So, the answer is, no you cannot make a wand or potion of touch of law, because it is not a spell.

If your GM wants to allow you to research a spell that duplicates your domain ability that is up to them. At that point it would be considered homebrew.

The Exchange

In the interest of silliness, I calculated the price of a (definitely not allowed by normal crafting guidelines) wand of a paladin's Divine Bond (Sp) ability using the logic of the original post.

Spoiler:
Let's see, the paladin gets the ability at 5th level, at which point she can only cast 1st level spells, so that would make it a 1st level spell. (Again, I don't really believe this. Just making a point.)

Now I need to determine caster level. The minimum caster level for Craft Wand is 5, but that doesn't set the minimum caster level of the wand itself. A 5th level paladin has a caster level of 2, so my crafter must be at least level 8 to have a CL of 5. I could argue that as a "1st-level spell" the minimum caster level for Divine Bond is 1, but I'm going to go with 2, since the paladin can't use the ability until she has a CL of 2.

It's important to note that the abilities of the (Sp) ability are set by the paladin's class level, not the caster level. So if I use my wand to gain the service of an animal, then since it was made by a 8th-level paladin I consider it to be a 8th-level companion.

Anyway, back to the cost:
Spell Level x Caster Level X 750 = 1 x 2 x 750 = 1500 gp


1500 gp for fifty 7HD animal companions. Totally buying this one.


Then, if there existed an archetype-specific way to add SLAs to a class list, making it a spell, would any cleric now be able to craft that wand?


Belafon wrote:

In the interest of silliness, I calculated the price of a (definitely not allowed by normal crafting guidelines) wand of a paladin's Divine Bond (Sp) ability using the logic of the original post.

** spoiler omitted **
1500 gp for fifty 7HD animal companions. Totally buying this one.

LoL, pick me up 2 while you're there. It'll go with my Ring of Seven Lovely Colors and excessivly dirty Boots of the Earth.


Have it made by an 11th level paladin and the mount would also get the celestial template. Now you get 50 9HD celestial animal companions that can all use smit evil once a day. I am going to need a lot more than two of these. Don't forget a paladins mount also has an INT of 6.


It's all being silly, but animal companion progression is based on class level. Not caster level.


here's a handy design guide for Superstar contests
> SKR consolidated advice thread, 2012-12-04
You should think about it for your Home Game

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