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The mystic theruge has always been an interesting concept for me, the idea of someone taking the time and effort to be versed in arcane and divine lore and murging them into a seamless whole getting the best of both worlds.
The problem is that its so clunky because you either have to A deal with duel stating or B wait until level 8-9 before you qualify, and by that point your team is probably sick of you being half baked at everything.
Meanwhile the Magaambyan Arcanist allows you to cast arcane and divine spells seamlessly(Albeit in a slightly more limited capacity.) and as far as i can tell is the only way to do this as a single classed character, but also is such a smoother flow while still being useful.
If i wanted to make a mystic theruge type character, wouldn't i be better off just running this?
Shaman with the lore spirit (and access to human fcb for good measure) with one level of loremaster to get access to the "secret of magical discipline" feat would also do a great job of it.
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Shaman with the lore spirit (and access to human fcb for good measure) with one level of loremaster to get access to the "secret of magical discipline" feat would also do a great job of it.
You need charisma to be able to gain spells
Intelligence to be able to know how to use spellsand wisdom to be able to cast them properly.
This is insanely MAD as you need all 3 mental stats while most 9th level casters need 2 at most.
I'm puzzled here. I don't see anything in Magaambyan Initiate or Magaambyan Arcanist that lets you cast divine spells.
The prestige class talks some stuff about that "the secrets of druidic magic are normally beyond the ken of arcane spellcasters", but that's bogus. My spreadsheet shows 742 Druid spells, 546 of which are on one or more of the regular arcane caster classes spell lists (Wizard, Bard, Summoner, Witch, Magus, Bloodrager). That's already almost 75%, almost 80% if we add in patron and bloodline spells. That's without archetypes.
If I wanted to make a Mystic Theurge type character, I'd just play a Witch, or a Lore Spirit Shaman ... or a Skald that can access all Cleric spells up to 6th level by default, no archetype, prestige class, or other permanent selection required.
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I'm puzzled here. I don't see anything in Magaambyan Initiate or Magaambyan Arcanist that lets you cast divine spells.
The prestige class talks some stuff about that "the secrets of druidic magic are normally beyond the ken of arcane spellcasters", but that's bogus. My spreadsheet shows 742 Druid spells, 546 of which are on one or more of the regular arcane caster classes spell lists (Wizard, Bard, Summoner, Witch, Magus, Bloodrager). That's already almost 75%, almost 80% if we add in patron and bloodline spells. That's without archetypes.
If I wanted to make a Mystic Theurge type character, I'd just play a Witch, or a Lore Spirit Shaman ... or a Skald that can access all Cleric spells up to 6th level by default, no archetype, prestige class, or other permanent selection required.
A witch is honestly an interesting take, how would you go about that exactly?
Really depends on what you want. My main point is that "divine casting" is only descriptive of how the casting is done, not what is being cast. There's a huge amount of overlap between spell lists across the "divide", more than most people realize. Simultaneously, the
'nature' divine casters (Druid/Ranger), do have fairly different spell lists from the 'deity' divine casters.
The Witch actually has better healing and condition removal than Druid, which is usually the one part of the traditionally divine spells that are most sought after. In addition, the Protective Luck+Soothsayer hex combo provides the protection/defensive party support aspect that divine casters are often associated with.
The Witch is (or should be) especially interesting for MT enthusiasts because it's an arcane caster that nonetheless has the "gets spells from an outside source" aspect that defines the divine casters.
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Meanwhile the Magaambyan Arcanist allows you to cast arcane and divine spells seamlessly(Albeit in a slightly more limited capacity.) and as far as i can tell is the only way to do this as a single classed character, but also is such a smoother flow while still being useful.
For clarification, you get to add a limited number of spells from the druid or cleric spell list to your arcane spell list. They are still arcane spells when you cast them, not divine. That might be what you meant, but your wording lead me (and at least one other poster) to read it as implying that you would be casting divine spells.
If i wanted to make a mystic theruge type character, wouldn't i be better off just running this?
Bear in mind that both the prestige class and the archetype gain an extremely limited number of spells. The Magaambyan Arcanist gets 1 lower-level druid spell per level (total 10) plus a few fixed cleric spells, most of which are already on the sorcerer/wizard spell list, and has to prepare them as normal. The Initiate gets 1 druid or [good] cleric spell per level (total 20) that she doesn't have to prepare, but can only cast them by spending arcane reservoir points and can't prepare them at all.
The Mystic Theurge gets access to the entire regular spellcasting progression of the base divine class. For a spontaneous caster, it works out to more spells known. For a prep caster, it gives you access to the entire list of spells to choose from each day. Either way, it works out to more spell slots. That's the big selling point of the Theurge for most people. You are delaying your highest level spells in return for being able to cast a ridiculous number and variety of spells per day.
When I was looking into a Wizard build, what I noticed is that the fundamental thing the 'divine' spell list has is status removal, other than that there is a lot of overlap of equivalent spells.
That was the foundation for my healing wizard, a Pact Wizard with the Healing Patron, and Samsaran Mystic Past Life (Witch) to cover all of that missing stuff.