| 1 person marked this as FAQ candidate. |
just like the title, can mischievous tail attack with improvised weapons?
Evidence for it:
1. MT can hold objects
2. ImpWe aren't weapons, they are objects
3. MT can be used to attack. combat maneuvers (spelled out as legal in the feat description) are attacks.
Mischievous Tail
Your tail seems to have a mind of its own.Prerequisite(s): Dex 15, Grasping Tail, you must have a tail.
Benefit(s): You can use your tail for all purposes as though it were a free hand, though you cannot effectively wield weapons or shields with it (you can still carry such objects with your tail, as long as such an object could also be comfortably carried in a hand normally). In addition, you gain a +2 bonus on disarm and steal combat maneuvers and Sleight of Hand checks performed using only your tail, and combat maneuvers performed this way do not provoke attacks of opportunity.
Improvised Weapons
Sometimes objects not crafted to be weapons nonetheless see use in combat. Because such objects are not designed for this use, any creature that uses an improvised weapon in combat is considered to be nonproficient with it and takes a –4 penalty on attack rolls made with that object. To determine the size category and appropriate damage for an improvised weapon, compare its relative size and damage potential to the weapon list to find a reasonable match. An improvised weapon scores a threat on a natural roll of 20 and deals double damage on a critical hit. An improvised thrown weapon has a range increment of 10 feet.
"you cannot effectively wield weapons"
Not even improvised ones. You can hold items. You can not effectively use the weapon. You can ineffectively swing it about. But you can't make useful attack rolls
An Improvised Weapon IS a weapon, hence the name Improvised weapon. A weapon is also an object.
they aren't weapons though, you can't take weapon focus as an example (improvisational focus is the replacement). you cant even be proficient with one, not even with exotic weapon proficiency, you can only ever be "considered proficient" .
No.
Mischievous Tail allows you to "use your tail for all purposes as though it were a free hand, though you cannot effectively wield weapons or shields with it"... you simply "cannot effectively wield weapons", improvised or otherwise. You CAN make "disarm and steal combat maneuvers and Sleight of Hand checks performed using only your tail"... not with weapons, improvised or otherwise.
|
they aren't weapons though, you can't take weapon focus as an example (improvisational focus is the replacement). you cant even be proficient with one, not even with exotic weapon proficiency, you can only ever be "considered proficient" ."you cannot effectively wield weapons"
Not even improvised ones. You can hold items. You can not effectively use the weapon. You can ineffectively swing it about. But you can't make useful attack rolls
An Improvised Weapon IS a weapon, hence the name Improvised weapon. A weapon is also an object.
weap·on
/ˈwepən/noun
a thing designed or used for inflicting bodily harm or physical damage.
an improvised weapon, is a weapon. hence weapon i its name....
it is not a martial, simple, or exotic weapon. those you can take weapon focus in. not every weapon fits into simple, martial, siege, or exotic catagories, and those are improvised weapons.
improvised weapons ARE weapons with their own rules.
a kitchen knife isnt a dagger, but both are knives.
A butter knife is an improvised weapon, a butterfly knife is a simple weapon (dagger)
This is one of those situations where we need to try and understand the rules, not merely read them. The feat makes the tail strong enough to hold items, and dextrous enough to perform steal, disarm, and SoH with it. So what is missing from wielding a weapon? Being able to put enough force behind an object it holds to make it an actual, damage dealing attack!
they aren't weapons though, you can't take weapon focus as an example (improvisational focus is the replacement). you cant even be proficient with one, not even with exotic weapon proficiency, you can only ever be "considered proficient".
The objects aren't weapons, but you attack with them the same as with a weapon. To put it in non-game terms, the physics behind the attack is the same. Any weapon, improvised or specifically made, requires kinetic energy to function, and your tail simply doesn't let you transfer enough kinetic energy to an object held by it. Doesn't matter whether the object is a sword or a folding chair.
they aren't weapons though, you can't take weapon focus as an example (improvisational focus is the replacement). you cant even be proficient with one, not even with exotic weapon proficiency, you can only ever be "considered proficient" ."you cannot effectively wield weapons"
Not even improvised ones. You can hold items. You can not effectively use the weapon. You can ineffectively swing it about. But you can't make useful attack rolls
An Improvised Weapon IS a weapon, hence the name Improvised weapon. A weapon is also an object.
weap·on
/ˈwepən/
noun
a thing designed or used for inflicting bodily harm or physical damage.an improvised weapon, is a weapon. hence weapon i its name....
it is not a martial, simple, or exotic weapon. those you can take weapon focus in. not every weapon fits into simple, martial, siege, or exotic catagories, and those are improvised weapons.
improvised weapons ARE weapons with their own rules.
a kitchen knife isnt a dagger, but both are knives.
A butter knife is an improvised weapon, a butterfly knife is a simple weapon (dagger)
I respectfully disagree. it even says in the game definition of improvised weapon "Sometimes objects not crafted to be weapons nonetheless see use in combat." Using something in combat doesn't make it a weapon. You are simply using a non-weapon as a weapon which is different than it being one. Like grabbing a scroll rolled up and swatting someone with it, its not a weapon its a scroll being used as one. Evident by the existence of improvisational focus feat, you can never be proficient in it like weapons, only "considered proficient:"
Benefit(s): You gain a +1 bonus on attack rolls you make using an improvised weapon. You are considered proficient with the improvised weapon and are considered to have Weapon Focus with improvised weapons for the purpose of meeting the prerequisites of feats that specifically select a weapon, such as Weapon Specialization.
here is at least one other forum where people constructively discussed this topic.
This is one of those situations where we need to try and understand the rules, not merely read them. The feat makes the tail strong enough to hold items, and dextrous enough to perform steal, disarm, and SoH with it. So what is missing from wielding a weapon? Being able to put enough force behind an object it holds to make it an actual, damage dealing attack!
A good argument. :) I think the reason they wont let you, rules as intended, is more of them not wanting extra appendages for players, even the alchemist version has harsh limitations built in to it. It just sounds like improved weapons wants to have its cake and eat it too, by not being a weapon and not-not being a weapon hehe
|
This is one of those situations where we need to try and understand the rules, not merely read them. The feat makes the tail strong enough to hold items, and dextrous enough to perform steal, disarm, and SoH with it. So what is missing from wielding a weapon? Being able to put enough force behind an object it holds to make it an actual, damage dealing attack!
It will lack the control and solidity of the grip we get from opposable thumbs, too.
No, attacking with a tail would be a natural attack, not a weapon. Improvised weapons are objects, not body parts.