Ideas for Mythic Archetypes

[keftiu]

There's been a fair amount of chatter around what a Mythic-equivalent system for PF2 might look like, and with the runaway success of 2e's Archetypes, I think there's a fair chance that's the shape Mythic might take in this edition. It makes good sense; in the same way that you can be a Viking or a Ghoul on top of whatever else you have going on, so too could you model a squirt of god-like power.

Owlcat's videogames are largely off doing their own thing, but their WotR's version of Mythic (with you taking on the abilities and eventually becoming one of numerous possible planar beings) has been very popular. It feels good for a Cleric to become a truly holy Angel, or for a LN character to lean into the harsh, impartial judgment of an Aeon - but the game also has a few alternatives (the wholly-mortal Legendary Hero, the ability to instead become a Lich, Swarm-that-Walks, or Golden Dragon) that could all certainly tempt PF2 characters.

So that's where this thread comes in; assuming 2e's Mythic looks something like how Archetypes broadly work already, what kinds of Mythic Archetype would get you most excited?

[Perpdepog]

I won't crib from WotR since I think their options are good ones and would like to see pretty much all of those in the game, though with a Legendary Hero getting a bit of a rework.

I'd also like to see an Archmage archetype. I'm not sure if it'd warrant multiple archetypes for different traditions, or if it could be broad enough for all casters, but mythic mage sounds like something of a no-brainer to me.

I'd also like to see an archetype that I can only think of as the Speaker, drawing on myths of heroes who would convince animals, plants, or nature itself to help them through mythic diplomacy, or I suppose deception or intimidation, rather than by simply being ridiculously strong.

That being said ... an archetype to allow a character to have mythic levels of strength, or speed, or resilience feels pretty on-theme too. I want to call it the Hero archetype but that doesn't feel right.

Finally, assuming the system was being built from the ground up for archetypes, something like making you into a Godling/Hero God from the getgo could be neat. Gaining a small cult you can give powers to, performing small miracles, etc.

These are all the roughest of rough spitballs, mind; I'm not really considering mechanics, or even necessarily narrative implication, just what the first things are that come to mind when I think "mythic."

[roquepo]

I never thought of using the archetype system for Mythic, but it could work really well if it had some additional rules on top of it. Something like "you can only gain this archetype and its related archetype feats as a bonus feat, rewarded upon completion of a heroic (or villanous) quest or deed in a Mythic adventure." Could be a great way of implementing it.

About what type of "specs" this version of Mythic should have, I very much like the WotR approach, I think "where you draw your newfound power from" is way more interesting than a "what you already do but better" approach, like in the original Mythic system.

As for what I want to see with that approach, I think Celestial, Aeon, Psychopomp, Protean and Fiend should be enough for planar paths (I don't know if Elemental or Shadow would be strong enough of a theme to be justified, but I could see those too). Dragon (or Beast if you want to go broader) and Lich (or just Undead) Finally, I think there should be a path focused on drawing power from pure magic (something more akin to how I imagine Nethys grew in power when he was just a mortal) and something like a paragon of mortality of sorts (I guess something similar in theme to the Legend from WotR or how Irori reached divinity).

[Cori Marie]

keftiu wrote:

There's been a fair amount of chatter around what a Mythic-equivalent system for PF2 might look like, and with the runaway success of 2e's Archetypes, I think there's a fair chance that's the shape Mythic might take in this edition. It makes good sense; in the same way that you can be a Viking or a Ghoul on top of whatever else you have going on, so too could you model a squirt of god-like power.

Owlcat's videogames are largely off doing their own thing, but their WotR's version of Mythic (with you taking on the abilities and eventually becoming one of numerous possible planar beings) has been very popular. It feels good for a Cleric to become a truly holy Angel, or for a LN character to lean into the harsh, impartial judgment of an Aeon - but the game also has a few alternatives (the wholly-mortal Legendary Hero, the ability to instead become a Lich, Swarm-that-Walks, or Golden Dragon) that could all certainly tempt PF2 characters.

So that's where this thread comes in; assuming 2e's Mythic looks something like how Archetypes broadly work already, what kinds of Mythic Archetype would get you most excited?

I've actually built my own version of Mythic using a modified Free Archetype. I took some inspiration from Owlcat in that I tied the paths to outsiders (with the exception of NE because Daemon Dedication and Demon Dedication would be too confusing. For NE I went with Blessing of Urgathoa) and for feats I pulled from the abilities of specific outsiders of appropriate levels. Like an Agathion Dedication Mythic character getting a Draconal's breath weapon with a Mythic feat.

[PossibleCabbage]

To be honest, I prefer the "these are the six and that's it" from 1e to how Owclcat did it. I think Mythic should mean "you find tricksters, and guardians, and champions in an incredible number of stories". So if there's another thing it should be something fundamental not like "and now you're an angel."

[VestOfHolding]

Ooh, what mythic paths do I want? Hmm.

* All of the mythic paths from the game, with various levels of rework for sure.

* I think there is a spectrum of design to play with. On one end of the spectrum is "every class has has an associated mythic version of themselves", and on the other end is "throw all those ideas into mythic feats with the appropriate traits/levels". I bet there's something in the middle to achieve. Someone earlier mentioned an Archmage path that many spellcasters could take. This almost harkens back to the original 1e paths, which I think we could still use, just make much more flavorful and interesting. I'm imagining a melee combat character that can do a 360-cleave, a shape-changing focused spellcaster that gets more buffs, is so skilled they can combine aspects from two or three forms, can add elemental damage to their attacks, etc. There's also still room here to give more specific paths to the classes with more unique mechanics. Such as a path for summoners that really goes ham on them becoming more in sync with their eidolon.

* How about mythic paths that involve you becoming wildly powerful scions of the different elements? Could have the corresponding geniekin heritage be a requirement for each one.

* Speaking of heritage requirements, how about an "Ancestral Paragon" mythic path? Double the effect of your heritage or take a second one, beefed up versions of some ancestry feats or take even more. Become a legendary icon that others of your ancestry will remember for millennia as the peak of what they could become. This stands out to me as something we can uniquely explore in 2e that we couldn't before.

* While the lich is a great mythic path, I think there could be enough design room for a couple other undead-themed paths, such as vampire and mummy.

* A lot of the mythic paths are tied to denizens of certain planes. I say fill the rest of those out (some overlap with my elemental idea for sure). Give me psychopomp and fey paths.

* Tangential to the elemental paths, I think there could be design space for more specifically doing genie-themed path(s).

* A big nature-themed path. Go full "Guardian of the Green".

* While Golden Dragon is cool, I think you could do other dragons. Gods no not every single one, but at least every group. One metallic, one chromatic, etc. They could even share quite a few base mythic options, but still get plenty of unique flavoring and options of their own to reflect that.

* A technology-themed path that has strong ties to Casandalee. Extra benefits for being an android or automaton.