Playable Lich

[Vipersfang]

If a skeleton player wants to become a Lich at level 12 can he? The Lich dedication says he has to a living creature but skeleton by definition is undead.

[aobst128]

Lore wise, you need to have a soul to put in a soul cage in order to become a lich. Skeletons that have become aware usually don't. If somehow, they have their original soul in tact, then maybe. The important thing about the living requirement is the soul I believe.

[PossibleCabbage]

I feel like all PCs have souls by virtue of "being uniquely equipped with free will by being piloted by an actual human." So all PCs can put their soul in a cage if they really want to.

The basic principle when something isn't proscribed by the rules is "if you want to do it, you should come up with a way to make it make sense."

[Perpdepog]

By the strict rules I don't think you can, but it doesn't sound like it'd hurt anything to let a player/ask a GM if it was doable, either.

If rules jiggering needs to happen you could also suggest that the player become a skeleton after attaining lichdom and replace their ancestry after the fact. Then they would have been alive and had a soul for sure but still get to be the more skeletal-style lich that pops up all over the place.
(As well as be able to take the skeleton feat to grant some resistances, which is the best way to mirror a lich's innate resilience.)

[PossibleCabbage]

I have to imagine that if you're holding the line on "a skeleton is not in possession of their own soul" you could still justify their lichdom by virtue of "their soul obviously hasn't been judged by Pharasma and thus has not become a petitioner, so it's still out there somewhere."

The process by which a Skeleton becomes a Lich would then be "go find your soul wherever it happens to be lurking, and put it in a box so you know where it is."

After all the item description for the Soul Cage item says:

Quote:

If your soul cage is destroyed but you aren't, you can attempt to find your soul and trap it again, building a new soul cage. This is no trivial feat and often takes an entire adventure to accomplish.

So you could just do that for a Skeleton would-be Lich.

[aobst128]

The process could be similar to a resurrect ritual if the soul in question has passed beyond the veil but instead of placing it back in your skeletal body, you place it in a soul cage. The ritual needed to become a lich is vague enough that that could possibly fit as an explanation.

[breithauptclan]

Yeah, this feels like something that should be handled by lore and description of the particular campaign and gaming group rather than something that should be held to strict rules mechanics.

I don't think there is anything inherently incompatible for game mechanics between Skeleton Ancestry and Lich Archetype. Just the lore requirement of a Lich starting from a living, intelligent creature.

[Guntermench]

Strictly speaking the prerequisite is you have to be a living creature. Skeletons are Undead and therefore not living creatures.

GM's can allow or disallow anything they want, obviously, but RAW this is a no. Same with if a player wanted any of the other Undead archetypes before going Lich.

[Vipersfang]

Thanks for all the input. The only reason i asked is because the Pathbuilder app sllows it. Initially i would of said no because he's undead....but i really like the idea of the soul...

[Dragonchess Player]

Technically, the lich archetype in Book of the Dead requires starting from a living creature (ancestry). However, the sidebar on page 51 provides the option of treating the soul cage similarly to the Rejuvenation Token skeleton ancestry feat (pages 56-57).

IMO, substituting the Rejuvenation Token (9th level) ancestry feat for the living creature prerequisite of the Lich Dedication (12th level) archetype feat could be a rules tweak to allow a skeleton to become a lich. Basically, they enhance their Rejuvenation Token into a soul cage. Thematically, Skeleton Commander and Necromantic Heir are also appropriate ancestry feats for a lich.