| GrayJester32 |
Hey, all.
So, I've recently started GMing again after a long hiatus away from the hotseat. We're playing Pathfinder 1st edition, and I'm working on re-familiarizing myself with the rules, which is easier in some cases than others.
I'm working on a stat block for a dragon I'd like the PCs to encounter later on, building one from the ground up as per the Dragon entries in Bestiary 1. But I've hit a bit of a snag in that I'm not finding anything concrete on how to calculate the dragon's base saving throw bonus. Furthermore, this seems to be a problem present across all the dragon entries in each Bestiary, as far as I can tell.
The closest thing I can find is under the Dragon type listed in the Bestiary's glossary, stating that a dragon has "Good Fortitude, Reflex, and Will saves." But I can't seen to find any sort of follow-up information. After poking around online for a while, I've been able to deduce that there are "Good saves" and "Bad saves" calculated based on the amount of racial HD a creature has, but I haven't been able to track down the specific calculation for Good or Bad saves.
Could somebody please point me in the right direction and, if possible, direct me to where this information might be written in the books proper?
Thanks in advance!
| OmniMage |
Good saves are equal to 2 + 1/2 per hit die.
Bad saves are equal to 1/3 per hit die.
Remember to round down.
So with 10 hit dice, the good saves would be 7 and bad saves be 3.3. if in doubt, check the character classes.
Prestige classes advance a little different, but I don't know how.
Edit: The math for prestige classes saves appear to be this.
Good saves seems to be (1/2 + 1/2 per hit die) rounded down.
Bad saves seems to be (1/3 + 1/3 per hit die) rounded down.
Pathfinder doesn't appear to keep fractions, so you should probably dump them.
| AwesomenessDog |
Note dragons have all good saves, so it should just be 7+stat+other bonuses (say from a Great Fortitude/Iron Will/Lightning Reflexes feats if you take them).
Also note @omni-mage, the prestige class difference is meant to account for half the benefit (or relative detriment) of good and bad saves because you might be going from a bad save to a good save in the prestige class or vice versa, and this was standardized before Fractional Base Bonuses was made a specific optional rule. In any case where someone is multiclassing, even into a PRC, I recommend just applying the FBB rules for simplicity sake.
Name Violation
|
d12 Hit Die.
Base attack bonus equal to total Hit Dice (fast progression).
Good Fortitude, Reflex, and Will Saves.
Skill points equal to 6 + Int modifier (minimum 1) per Hit Die. The following are class skills for dragons: Appraise, Bluff, Climb, Craft, Diplomacy, Fly, Heal, Intimidate, Knowledge (all), Linguistics, Perception, Sense Motive, Spellcraft, Stealth, Survival, Swim, and Use Magic Device.
Traits
A dragon possesses the following traits (unless otherwise noted in a creature’s entry).
Darkvision 60 feet and low-light vision.
Immunity to magic sleep effects and paralysis effects.
Proficient with its natural weapons only unless humanoid in form (or capable of assuming humanoid form), in which case proficient with all simple weapons and any weapons mentioned in its entry.
Proficient with no armor.
Dragons breathe, eat, and sleep.
| Claxon |
You could also look at any class entry and figure out the progression (same as what Omnimage stated). Classes either have good or bad save progression for each kind of save. Fighter for example has good fort and bad will/reflex saves. At level 20 the fort save is 12 (20/2+2). At level 10 the fort save is 7 (10/2+2). The reflex and wisdom saves are 6 at level 20 (20/3) and 3 at 10th level (10/3). Do note that they are rounding down saves to the nearest whole number.
If you just imagine your dragon HD as class levels, that will tell you where you should look on the chart for saves.