What is the max number of Familiar and Master abilities?

[Lafan312]

Apologies for potential redundancy.
I'm trying to figure out how many abilities are available in total. The Witch and Wizard classes seem to have access to the same advancement (albeit it's an innate part of the Witch but only an option for the Wizard), so at 1st level both classes start with access to 3 Familiar/Master abilities total, and gain an extra ability at 6th, 12th and 18th level. Without taking any of the familiar advancement class feats that gives you a flat 6 abilities.
Unless I've missed something, I believe there are only 2 class feats available to increase the number of abilities available, which start at 4 and max out at 6 with the Enchanted and Incredible Familiar class feats, respectively, giving you access to a total of 12 abilities to distribute between yourself and your familiar.
Is that everything RAW or did I miss something? Is 12 the highest possible number of abilities a PC with a familiar can have? Did I misinterpret the perk granted by Improved Familiar?
Thank you in advance for taking the time to check my work.

Edit: spelling

[Gisher]

I'm not exactly sure where you are getting 12.

• As you said, a Wizard with Improved Familiar Attunement Thesis and a Witch both have familiars that start with 3 abilities and eventually have 6.

• Either can take Enhanced Familiar to get 2 more abilities for a maximum of 8.

• Either can take Incredible Familiar to increase their abilities to 10. (The Wizard would need to take Witch Multiclass or Familiar Master to get access to that feat.)

That's the maximum for the standard, switchable abilities. There are two other options, but they don't get you standard, switchable abilities.

• Druid Multiclass gives access to Leshy Familiar Secrets which lets you add one Leshy ability, but the familiar needs to be made into a Leshy first. (A Witch could use Wortwitch to do this.) So that's 11 if you count the Leshy ability with the standard ones.

• Improved Familiar can effectively get you more abilities with a specific familiar. For example, if a specific familiar has 5 abilities and normally costs 5 abilities to acquire, then Improved Familiar would get you 5 abilities for the price of 3 so you'd effectively be getting 2 extra abilities. But specific familiar abilities aren't changeable and often don't match the standard abilities so the count becomes complicated there.

-----

To help your research, here is my list of ways to get familiars and increase their number of abilities.

• Gisher's Guide to Acquiring Familiars

[Ed Reppert]

Nice Guide, Gisher.

I guess my Wizard can't get a Faerie Dragon familiar until sixth level -- and then I guess he'd have to trade out the one he got at first level, assuming he can do that.

[Gisher]

Ed Reppert wrote:

Nice Guide, Gisher.

Thanks! :)

Ed Reppert wrote:

I guess my Wizard can't get a Faerie Dragon familiar until sixth level --

Yeah, I think 6th level is the earliest possible level for a faerie dragon.

Ed Reppert wrote:

...and then I guess he'd have to trade out the one he got at first level, assuming he can do that.

You either trade out your old familiar or it transforms into the specific familiar. GM call.

APG, p. 148 wrote:

Any character can gain a specific familiar so long as they already have a familiar with at least the required number of abilities listed in the specific familiar's stat block. Such a familiar usually replaces an existing familiar, though in some circumstances (such as for a witch) the familiar may evolve or reveal its true form. In any case, this transition from a normal familiar to a specific familiar requires no downtime and has no cost. Once you've selected a specific familiar, you can't change it without losing your familiar— this uses the same rules as if your familiar had died.

[Captain Morgan]

Gisher wrote:

I'm not exactly sure where you are getting 12.

• As you said, a Wizard with Improved Familiar Attunement Thesis and a Witch both have familiars that start with 3 abilities and eventually have 6.

• Either can take Enhanced Familiar to get 2 more abilities for a maximum of 8.

• Either can take Incredible Familiar to increase their abilities to 10. (The Wizard would need to take Witch Multiclass or Familiar Master to get access to that feat.)

That's the maximum for the standard, switchable abilities. There are two other options, but they don't get you standard, switchable abilities.

• Druid Multiclass gives access to Leshy Familiar Secrets which lets you add one Leshy ability, but the familiar needs to be made into a Leshy first. (A Witch could use Wortwitch to do this.) So that's 11 if you count the Leshy ability with the standard ones.

• Improved Familiar can effectively get you more abilities with a specific familiar. For example, if a specific familiar has 5 abilities and normally costs 5 abilities to acquire, then Improved Familiar would get you 5 abilities for the price of 3 so you'd effectively be getting 2 extra abilities. But specific familiar abilities aren't changeable and often don't match the standard abilities so the count becomes complicated there.

-----

To help your research, here is my list of ways to get familiars and increase their number of abilities.

• Gisher's Guide to Acquiring Familiars

Pipefox nets you 7 abilities and only costs 5, so with incredible familiar reducing the cost to 3 you're netting 4. So you wind up with 14 but 7 are locked in. Luckily the locked in ones are all good choices, at least for my shisk witch. And the rules on specific familiars are a little ambiguous around switching variable abilities like skilled or divinatory linguist each day.

[Lafan312]

Gisher wrote:

I'm not exactly sure where you are getting 12.

• As you said, a Wizard with Improved Familiar Attunement Thesis and a Witch both have familiars that start with 3 abilities and eventually have 6.

• Either can take Enhanced Familiar to get 2 more abilities for a maximum of 8.

• Either can take Incredible Familiar to increase their abilities to 10. (The Wizard would need to take Witch Multiclass or Familiar Master to get access to that feat.)

That's the maximum for the standard, switchable abilities. There are two other options, but they don't get you standard, switchable abilities.

• Druid Multiclass gives access to Leshy Familiar Secrets which lets you add one Leshy ability, but the familiar needs to be made into a Leshy first. (A Witch could use Wortwitch to do this.) So that's 11 if you count the Leshy ability with the standard ones.

• Improved Familiar can effectively get you more abilities with a specific familiar. For example, if a specific familiar has 5 abilities and normally costs 5 abilities to acquire, then Improved Familiar would get you 5 abilities for the price of 3 so you'd effectively be getting 2 extra abilities. But specific familiar abilities aren't changeable and often don't match the standard abilities so the count becomes complicated there.

-----

To help your research, here is my list of ways to get familiars and increase their number of abilities.

• Gisher's Guide to Acquiring Familiars

It was my understanding that you add the 4 abilities from Enhanced Familiar to the baseline you get from just your class, and when you're able to take Incredible Familiar you get 2 more?

Edit: thank you for the info though! 😁

[Gisher]

I just added the granted standard abilities for each specific familiar.

• Gisher's Guide to Acquiring Familiars

[Lafan312]

Lafan312 wrote:

Gisher wrote:

I'm not exactly sure where you are getting 12.

• As you said, a Wizard with Improved Familiar Attunement Thesis and a Witch both have familiars that start with 3 abilities and eventually have 6.

• Either can take Enhanced Familiar to get 2 more abilities for a maximum of 8.

• Either can take Incredible Familiar to increase their abilities to 10. (The Wizard would need to take Witch Multiclass or Familiar Master to get access to that feat.)

That's the maximum for the standard, switchable abilities. There are two other options, but they don't get you standard, switchable abilities.

• Druid Multiclass gives access to Leshy Familiar Secrets which lets you add one Leshy ability, but the familiar needs to be made into a Leshy first. (A Witch could use Wortwitch to do this.) So that's 11 if you count the Leshy ability with the standard ones.

• Improved Familiar can effectively get you more abilities with a specific familiar. For example, if a specific familiar has 5 abilities and normally costs 5 abilities to acquire, then Improved Familiar would get you 5 abilities for the price of 3 so you'd effectively be getting 2 extra abilities. But specific familiar abilities aren't changeable and often don't match the standard abilities so the count becomes complicated there.

-----

To help your research, here is my list of ways to get familiars and increase their number of abilities.

• Gisher's Guide to Acquiring Familiars

It was my understanding that you add the 4 abilities from Enhanced Familiar to the baseline you get from just your class, and when you're able to take Incredible Familiar you get 2 more?

Edit: thank you for the info though!

Oooooooooooooh I see what I did.

"You can select four familiar or master abilities, instead of two."

[Gisher]

Lafan312 wrote:

It was my understanding that you add the 4 abilities from Enhanced Familiar to the baseline you get from just your class, and when you're able to take Incredible Familiar you get 2 more?

Edit: thank you for the info though!

The wording on Enhanced Familiar can be a bit confusing. The upshot is that it adds two abilities.

For the Wizard:

CRB, p. 210 wrote:

If your arcane thesis is improved familiar attunement, your familiar’s base number of familiar abilities, before adding any extra abilities from the arcane thesis, is four.

This is just to make it clear that the feat increases your base abilities from 2 to 4 before the extra abilities at 1st, 6th, 12th , and 18th are added on. Otherwise it might seem that the effects of the feat are replaced by two of the bonus abilities, and the feat ends up doing nothing.

For the Witch:

APG, p. 102 wrote:

Add the bonus familiar abilities you gain for being a witch to this amount.

This is written much more succinctly, but it means the same thing as the Wizard text does.

[Gisher]

Lafan312 wrote:

Oooooooooooooh I see what I did.

"You can select four familiar or master abilities, instead of two."

We cross-posted. :)

And you are correct. It is affecting the base number of abilities which is 2 and changing it to 4. All the extra abilities still apply.

[Lafan312]

Gisher wrote:

Lafan312 wrote:

Oooooooooooooh I see what I did.

"You can select four familiar or master abilities, instead of two."

We cross-posted. :)

And you are correct. It is affecting the base number of abilities which is 2 and changing it to 4. All the extra abilities still apply.

Yeah, I think I just missed the entire last part there, it just kind of clicked right after I made that first reply. lol Thank you for helping me clear this up. Just a couple more final clarification questions.

So without getting into shenanigans, the baseline RAW maximum number of abilities available is in fact 10? And if you're going for a specific familiar build, like those presented in the APG, then Improved Familiar basically just fudges it and gives you two free ability slots that can only be used towards those familiar builds? Just asking one last time nail it down.

[Squiggit]

Gisher wrote:

Lafan312 wrote:

It was my understanding that you add the 4 abilities from Enhanced Familiar to the baseline you get from just your class, and when you're able to take Incredible Familiar you get 2 more?

Edit: thank you for the info though!

The wording on Enhanced Familiar can be a bit confusing. The upshot is that it adds two abilities.

For the Wizard:

CRB, p. 210 wrote:

If your arcane thesis is improved familiar attunement, your familiar’s base number of familiar abilities, before adding any extra abilities from the arcane thesis, is four.

This is just to make it clear that the feat increases your base abilities from 2 to 4 before the extra abilities at 1st, 6th, 12th , and 18th are added on. Otherwise it might seem that the effects of the feat are replaced by two of the bonus abilities, and the feat ends up doing nothing.

For the Witch:

APG, p. 102 wrote:

Add the bonus familiar abilities you gain for being a witch to this amount.

This is written much more succinctly, but it means the same thing as the Wizard text does.

Honestly it seems kind of unnecessarily wordy in general. "Gain two extra familiar abilities" feels like it would have been a lot easier than changing the base number of abilities then editting in exceptions for wizards and witches (and to make it even more awkward, incredible familiar lacks the clarification, and I've seen some people argue that means it doesn't work for those characters).

[Lafan312]

Ignore those last questions, I've got it. Thanks for the guide, that thing is a godsend.

[thewastedwalrus]

You can get +1 familiar ability from the Elementalist class archetype's Elemental Familiar, though it needs to be one of the elemental familiar abilities.

[Lafan312]

Squiggit wrote:

Honestly it seems kind of unnecessarily wordy in general. "Gain two extra familiar abilities" feels like it would have been a lot easier than changing the base number of abilities then editting in exceptions for wizards and witches (and to make it even more awkward, incredible familiar lacks the clarification, and I've seen some people argue that means it doesn't work for those characters).

I mean, the feat is written the same for all classes that have access to it, and the wording makes sense for a class that has access to the Enhanced Familiar feat but lacks the extra ability slots granted by the Familiar Wizard and the Witch. Case in point, the Druid has access to Enhanced Familiar after taking the Leshy Familiar feat, but they don't get the extra ability slots at 1st, 6th, 12th and 18th levels. That being said, you're totally right that just saying "gain two extra familiar abilities" would also work, and honestly it could have saved me the trouble of even making this post in the first place.