
Big-Bear |
I want to make a character who transforms into a bear and that goes around with a bear companion.
Which is more powerful, choosing a Druid class or choosing a different class and take a Druid Dedication?
Otherwise, any other builds you recommend?
I look forward to transforms into a bear and fight as a bear with powerful bear claws(and my powerful bear companion too) in every combats.
Because of the campaign setting, the race is only human(not with beastkin), though GM allowed a bear transformation.
Please advice.
Lastly, sorry for my terrible English.

Captain Morgan |
2 people marked this as a favorite. |

If all you want to do is fight as a bear, animal instinct barbarian has you covered. You get a partial transformation at level 1 and can turn fully into a bear at level 8. (Though I'm not sure what that does outside of roleplay.) You do this every time you rage.
You then want the Beastmaster archetype, not Druid, for an animal companion.
On the other hand if you want to sacrifice some toughness for spell casting options, be a druid.

SuperBidi |

Your fantasy is not very easy to create from level 1 to 20.
Animal Barbarian is nice but you'll start being a bear very late. Also, as an Animal Barbarian, turning into a bear is not really interesting combat wise. Unless your campaign is a high level one I don't think this will cover your fantasy.
Druid is obvious and the whole class covers your fantasy well from level 3 to 10. After that, you'll want to turn into something else than a bear if you want to keep being efficient. Also, even if Druid covers your fantasy, it's first and foremost a full caster so you'll lose a lot of power by ignoring your spells (you can't cast as a bear).
Another solution is a Beast Summoner using Animal Form. You won't be able to turn into a bear every fight as it costs you a spell to cast. But you'll be able to do it from level 3 to level 10 efficiently. And you have a feat to coordinate your attacks that can be quite funny. In my opinion, this build is more efficient than the Druid one.
Overall, I don't see a way to turn into a bear from level 1 to 20 and be efficient. So you'll have to choose a level bracket where you want to fulfill your fantasy. Or you'll need to give up on something. For example, if you're fine being "bearish", with bear features like teeth and claws but not transforming fully into a bear, then Animal Barbarian works wonder.

SuperBidi |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |

Summoner with beast eidolon and beast master dedication.
Meld into eidolon and you are done ( available from lvl 2-20 ).
Unfortunately, the Eidolon can't command the Animal Companion as it's not its minion. So you have to wait for level 4 for the Animal Companion to have one action per round otherwise it can't act (and even with this action, it won't act much).

HumbleGamer |
HumbleGamer wrote:Unfortunately, the Eidolon can't command the Animal Companion as it's not its minion. So you have to wait for level 4 for the Animal Companion to have one action per round otherwise it can't act (and even with this action, it won't act much).Summoner with beast eidolon and beast master dedication.
Meld into eidolon and you are done ( available from lvl 2-20 ).
That's right, but it may be easily allowed by the DM, given how underpowered would eventually result the build.
( Druid would be outplayed the more the characters level, while the barbarian will start being a bear by lvl 8 )
@Big-Bear: Is your character going to start from lvl 1 or at higher level?

Big-Bear |
SuperBidi wrote:HumbleGamer wrote:Unfortunately, the Eidolon can't command the Animal Companion as it's not its minion. So you have to wait for level 4 for the Animal Companion to have one action per round otherwise it can't act (and even with this action, it won't act much).Summoner with beast eidolon and beast master dedication.
Meld into eidolon and you are done ( available from lvl 2-20 ).
That's right, but it may be easily allowed by the DM, given how underpowered would eventually result the build.
( Druid would be outplayed the more the characters level, while the barbarian will start being a bear by lvl 8 )
@Big-Bear: Is your character going to start from lvl 1 or at higher level?
Starting at level 3

HumbleGamer |
HumbleGamer wrote:Starting at level 3SuperBidi wrote:HumbleGamer wrote:Unfortunately, the Eidolon can't command the Animal Companion as it's not its minion. So you have to wait for level 4 for the Animal Companion to have one action per round otherwise it can't act (and even with this action, it won't act much).Summoner with beast eidolon and beast master dedication.
Meld into eidolon and you are done ( available from lvl 2-20 ).
That's right, but it may be easily allowed by the DM, given how underpowered would eventually result the build.
( Druid would be outplayed the more the characters level, while the barbarian will start being a bear by lvl 8 )
@Big-Bear: Is your character going to start from lvl 1 or at higher level?
Nice.
Do you also have, by any chance, the possibility to know how long ( until what level ) is the adventure going to last?
If it's going to go until lvl 20, the druid will start loosing ground by lvl 9/10 ( it also would incrase its size without any chance to decide otherwise, so you'll end up with a huge bear whether you like it or not ).
Barbarian and Eidolon remains medium ( you can increase your eidolon size if you want, until huge ).
Plus, keep in mind that STR based companion are extremely bad for no reason ( 1 or 2 extra damage compared to dex ones, but 8 less Armor Class, reflex saves, stealth/acrobatics, and so on ).
Not having finesse attacks, your bear is forced to go STR ( maybe it's something you may discuss with your DM ), resulting not so performant ( less armor than a clumsy 3 spellcaster ).

Sanityfaerie |

It is possible to archetype druid for Wild Shape. This coudl work either as a summoner or as a monk, though in both cases you're stills eeing a drop-off in effectiveness if the campaign goes on too long.
Also, summoner-as-bear has an unfortunate antisynergy that afflicts all melee summoners where they share MAP with their eidolon.

Gortle |

HumbleGamer wrote:Unfortunately, the Eidolon can't command the Animal Companion as it's not its minion. So you have to wait for level 4 for the Animal Companion to have one action per round otherwise it can't act (and even with this action, it won't act much).Summoner with beast eidolon and beast master dedication.
Meld into eidolon and you are done ( available from lvl 2-20 ).
True but if your GM is reasonably flexible anyone even your Eidolon could attempt Command an Animal verus an Animal Companion. Effects are totally up to the GM as it is not the normal Animal Companion situation, and will depend on what the Animal Companion thinks of the Eidolon.

Sanityfaerie |

Sanityfaerie wrote:Also, summoner-as-bear has an unfortunate antisynergy that afflicts all melee summoners where they share MAP with their eidolon.At level 6, Tandem Strike solves this issue.
Helps, maybe, but I think that "solves" is overselling it. It does nothing for combat maneuvers, doesn't work for anything past the first two strikes, requires that both be attacking the same target... really, Tandem Strike is just the summoner version of Double Slice, except that it's level 6 instead of level 1, takes a hit from you and your eidolon rather than from one weapon in each hand, and interacts a bit differently with things like resistances and vulnerabilities.
Melee summoners just are not well-supported.

SuperBidi |

Helps, maybe, but I think that "solves" is overselling it. It does nothing for combat maneuvers, doesn't work for anything past the first two strikes, requires that both be attacking the same target... really, Tandem Strike is just the summoner version of Double Slice, except that it's level 6 instead of level 1, takes a hit from you and your eidolon rather than from one weapon in each hand, and interacts a bit differently with things like resistances and vulnerabilities.
Summoner's maneuvers don't interact with MAP at all. They are automatic sucesses.
And it allows both the Eidolon and the Summoner to attack with a noteworthy gain. The comparison with Double Slice is good: Without it, you just don't attack with the Summoner and the Eidolon, with it, you attack with both the Summoner and the Eidolon.Melee summoners just are not well-supported.
I agree, but none of the presented builds were strong anyway. I actually think it's one of the less bad.

![]() |

It is possible to archetype druid for Wild Shape. This coudl work either as a summoner or as a monk, though in both cases you're stills eeing a drop-off in effectiveness if the campaign goes on too long...
Why not a Flurry Ranger who archtypes into Druid for Wild Shape? Not having played a Druid yet, I am uncertain of the mechanics. Fist/bear claw is unarmed, so it's agile. I suppose Handwraps will let you get +1 Striking and utilize Twin Takedown (which requires one weapon in each hand).