Best druid archetype for this party?

[ThatGuyDM]

At level 3, coming on 4, I'm looking for what be most effective for this party:

Shield-and-axe Fighter
Ranged Magus
Elemental Sorcerer

I'm a Leaf Order Druid who's also throwing out Battle Medicine's every so often. The one major weakness I've seen with the party is lack of ways to help our backline hit AC. I've gone Animal too to give Fighter something to flank with, but there's not much support for the rest. I've also heard AC's are useless the higher we go, so ideally I'm looking for something that'd be good all the way to 20.

Any suggestions for how to spend the Free Archetype would be welcome. Assume I can find a way to qualify for any, though multiple suggestions are welcome just in case they're setting inappropriate or too weird.

[HumbleGamer]

AC is all but useless.

It simply not supposed to work the way you may think.

The purpose of a high AC is to prevent ( or reduce the chances for) a critical hit on the first blow.

The first attack can indeed miss too, but not taking damage on the first attack is not the reason you invest into AC.

Then is would work giving the tank ( always talking, about a character who invested into AC) some sort of % avoidance on the second attack.

Being able to be just hit on the first attack and missed on the second, compared to being crit on the first and hit on the second, is an extremely huge difference.

Back to the suggestions, you have a half tank ( less AC than a monk or champion) and 2 ranged characters ( the tank would take the majority of damage).

Knowing this, I'd invest in some sustain for the front line.

I really like the witch "life boost" Spell, because it costs 1 action, has 30 feet range, and distributes it's healing overtime ( allowing you to heal in a better way, using also low level spells, and not over healing).

You may consider getting an occult patron, in order to cast synesthesia from spells or wands, at some point.

Life connection ( lvl 3 spell) is also a must have, in my opinion, as it allows you to properly shelter the front line, in order to prevent them to go down, if required.

And then you are set.

Ps: as for damaging stuff, ray of frost and electric arc would be your best friends, but consider get at least 1 aoe blast just to double up the eleemntal sorcerer effects or just for fun! ( come of cold and chain lightning are both gorgeous).

[Gortle]

ThatGuyDM wrote:

At level 3, coming on 4, I'm looking for what be most effective for this party:

Shield-and-axe Fighter
Ranged Magus
Elemental Sorcerer

I'm a Leaf Order Druid who's also throwing out Battle Medicine's every so often. The one major weakness I've seen with the party is lack of ways to help our backline hit AC. I've gone Animal too to give Fighter something to flank with, but there's not much support for the rest. I've also heard AC's are useless the higher we go, so ideally I'm looking for something that'd be good all the way to 20.

Any suggestions for how to spend the Free Archetype would be welcome. Assume I can find a way to qualify for any, though multiple suggestions are welcome just in case they're setting inappropriate or too weird.

A key limitation of the primal spell list is that it has no numerical buffs. No pluses to hit. If you want those look at Bard or Cleric. Try Bard Dedication and make sure to pick up Inspirational Performance for the inspire courage composition cantrip.

But you can help make enemies prone, grabbed or otherwise flatfooted with the right choice of spells. So early on Grease, Hyraulic Push can help. The Fear spell is pretty good at lowering your enemies AC and attacks.

[breithauptclan]

Heh. There are two meanings of "AC": Armor Class, and Animal Companion.

[YuriP]

breithauptclan wrote:

Heh. There are two meanings of "AC": Armor Class, and Animal Companion.

Yeah they are talking from 2 different thing. That's why I don't use AC to referer to Animal Companion. Now I only use companion (even because we now have many companion that aren't animal).

About OP question of way archetype to get. IMO druid is one of the worst class to receive benefiths from an archetype, the best archetype option is probably the cleric archetype because both uses same stat (wis) and also allows to focus it's spells for more offensive usage while use the additional archetype spells to heal and support, also support and heal spells don't require you to have a good DC so you don't need to worry too much about your divine tradition proficiency be lower.

About the question of how better support the lack of frontline with a druid I think that really have 2 ways. One is the Animal Companion has was said in OP. The companion don't become useless in higher levels, they always stills a very good option to help the fighter to flank and usually have good AC, their limitation is that theirs attack power and hit doesn't improve a lot over time compared to most martial classes (but they also don't uses your MAP) so can be interesting that you complete this lack of offensive power if your druid spells.
Other option is uses Battle Forms to help the Fighter in front line. You will be unable to cast spells in the form and will don't be stronger than a pure martial but you still be a good help in order to flank, to use athletics, can receive support from your companion and in emergency situation can dismiss the form in 1-action to cast a heal or other emergency spell.

[HumbleGamer]

breithauptclan wrote:

Heh. There are two meanings of "AC": Armor Class, and Animal Companion.

Shoot, I forgot some ppl also use it for the companion.

[ThatGuyDM]

Gortle wrote:

A key limitation of the primal spell list is that it has no numerical buffs. No pluses to hit. If you want those look at Bard or Cleric. Try Bard Dedication and make sure to pick up Inspirational Performance for the inspire courage composition cantrip. But you can help make enemies prone, grabbed or otherwise flatfooted with the right choice of spells. So early on Grease, Hyraulic Push can help. The Fear spell is pretty good at lowering your enemies AC and attacks.

Thanks for the replies all. Man, you rated bard the worst archetype to pick in your guide! But the more I think about it, the better it sounds. Being able to consistently buff the party, all of which care about hitting AC, sounds really good. That and the occult tradition is the least like Primal, which we have more than enough of, so that sounds nice.

Would you say composition cantrips and animal companions are anti-synergistic? If the routine for spell-casters is Cast a Spell, 1-action whatever else, I'm wondering if it competes too hard with Command.

[YuriP]

Bard dedication to take composite spells isn't really bad for a druid but while having a companion it's suffer from an action economy hell.

The main problem os this combination is that you probably want to use the composition spell every turn but at same time you probably want to cast some spell and want to command you companion. OK for mature companion they can use at last one action freely Stride or Strike but it's unable to use support action and maybe not enough to position it. So in many situations you have to choose not cast/not sing/not command due lack of actions.
But it's not a really big problem, it's just a consequence of have many abilities that requires actions and you still can use them wisely.

The other "problem" is the MAD and casting proficiency. Bard dedication uses cha but your druid spells uses your wiz. So if you plan to use bard spellcasting abilities offensively you have to do some investment in your cha naturally investing less in other stat (usually con) at same time that your spellcasting proficiency in occult tradition will be lower. These both together makes your Bard spells DCs/Attack bonus significantly lower making it a limited option if you want to use the archetype to increase the number of spellslots you can use.
Usually it's also not a really big problem because is common in many build take the dedication only to have access to most basic composition spells but if you will use it as free archetype where you receive an archetype feat every 2 levels this will be considerable limitation once the occult have a great number of offensive spells that requires a high tradition DC/Hit rate.

[Gortle]

Yuri is right. The action economy is a killer.

I would not recommend an animal companion and Bard dedication except if you are playing a caster Druid. Then ride your animal companion once it is independant for the free move and it will really help.

Wild shape will stop you from using a Bard cantrip.

There is not a lot of synergy here a Druid is not supposed to hand out numerical buffs. But you do your character how you want. There is a spot here where it will work well. Just be careful as not everything will.

A more traditional choice would be to persuade the Sorcerer to take the Bard free archtype. In a small party I'd probably have the Druid go free archetype Beastmaster and get an Animal companion that way, keeping my Druid feats for some extra powers like Order Explorer and Advanced Elemental Spell goodness. Or if I was going the other direction, maybe one of the Martial archetypes to pick up some maneuvers for use in wild shape.

[gesalt]

As far as bard cantrips go, somebody in the party should have lingering inspire by level 8 and if the sorc or fighter isn't going to step up then the druid has to. Easily justifiable as animals and plants both love music too.

ACs aren't that bad either as a flanker or as a sack of hp to offer up to enemies. Just make sure it's a dex companion.

[Martialmasters]

I'd get prepared to transform into various animals in case your fighter goes down or needs backup.

[ThatGuyDM]

Ah, forgot to mention the Fighter has Dread Marshal Aura, which is 2/3'rds of Inspire Courage right there if we stay close. Still, thanks guys, it's a lot to consider. Captivator seems like a great fit too, since all the good buff spells are enchantments and it gets more of them earlier...