ok so the Squid Giant, doesnt list how many tentacles it has this is the attacks?
Melee bite +14 (2d6+7), 2 arms +14 (1d6+7), tentacles +12 (4d6+3/19-20 plus grab)
It gets 1 bite, 2 attacks with arms, and 1 attack with "tentacles." 4 total attacks on a full attack routine.
but it doesnt say one tentacle?? why whd a squid have one tentacle??
How many bite attacks does it say the squid gets? The tentacles are listed the same. My interpration is that it is making one attack with all of the tentacles at once. Look at the damage for an arm attack, now at the tentacle damage. The arms are bigger and stronger than an individual tentacle, so the tentacle attack cannot logically be a single tentacle.
It's an abstraction. The squid might attack with many tentacles, but mechanically it's just one attack, although with increased damage and further goodies (crit range, grab). Paizo doesn't want people to roll numerous weak tentacle attacks, because it slows down the table. So they opted for combining these attacks to one.
A similiar case is the aberrant Unchained eidolon with the tentacle mass evolution it unlocks. It's also just one attack, mechanically.
the normal squid has two tentacles why whd they give one??
I only see one tentacle attack listed for squid on nethys, d20pfsrd ans the legacy prd, where do you read that it has 2?
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I think she is speaking of RL squids.
A squid is a mollusc with an elongated soft body, large eyes, eight arms, and two tentacles in the superorder Decapodiformes.
Melee bite +14 (2d6+7), 2 arms +14 (1d6+7), tentacles +12 (4d6+3/19-20 plus grab)
The Pathfinder attacks don't consider RL taxonomy and terms.
The "2 arms" attacks are the two tentacles of an RL squid.
The "tentacles +12" single attack represents in an aggregated form all the attacks of the "eight arms" of the squid. Pathfinder doesn't care how many "arms" has a squid, only what it can do with them, and the developers have decided that the squid can attack only once, against a single target and that the attack will be represented by a single attack roll doing 4d6+3 total damage.
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Agreed. This is distinct from the Giant Octopus, which does attack with a primary bite and eight secondary tentacles. Still, a single attack with a mass of tentacles gives you a lot of damage to punch through DR, and a vicious Constrict.
From the point of view of a Wild Shape druid, it's a shame that not only is the squid immobile on land, but it's over the size limit for Sky Swim. :D
There is the question if a druid wildshaped into an aquatic creature can breathe air, too.
Are lungs a "for dependant" ability?
It's similar to the Devilfish (a cuttlefish's evil cousin) where they have a relatively small maw of multiple tentacles and actual beaked bite within. The tentacles all act together as a single attack.
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Agreed. This is distinct from the Giant Octopus, which does attack with a primary bite and eight secondary tentacles. Still, a single attack with a mass of tentacles gives you a lot of damage to punch through DR, and a vicious Constrict.
From the point of view of a Wild Shape druid, it's a shame that not only is the squid immobile on land, but it's over the size limit for Sky Swim. :D
There is the question if a druid wildshaped into an aquatic creature can breathe air, too.
Are lungs a "for dependant" ability?
FORM dependant.
Sigh.
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Agreed. This is distinct from the Giant Octopus, which does attack with a primary bite and eight secondary tentacles. Still, a single attack with a mass of tentacles gives you a lot of damage to punch through DR, and a vicious Constrict.
From the point of view of a Wild Shape druid, it's a shame that not only is the squid immobile on land, but it's over the size limit for Sky Swim. :D
There is the question if a druid wildshaped into an aquatic creature can breathe air, too.
Are lungs a "for dependant" ability?
Wild Shape works like Beast Shape, which inherits properties from the Polymorph rules, which say you never lose your inherent ability to breathe, only gain extra capabilities from forms that can swim or burrow.
Don't forget you don't gain templates, either, and someone who takes a really close* look at you can say "hey, that's not a real squid - it's a druid pretending to be one". Weird, but that's how it's written.
*Doesn't need to be all that close, either: it's only +10 to Disguise, a skill you probably haven't wasted many ranks on. :D
While under the effects of a polymorph spell, you lose all extraordinary and supernatural abilities that depend on your original form (such as keen senses, scent, and darkvision), as well as any natural attacks and movement types possessed by your original form.
While breathing isn't extraordinary or supernatural, it is form dependent.
I am a human and I can grasp things in my hands. It is neither Ex or Su, nor an attack or movement. I become a cat. I can still grasp things in my hands?Besides that, disguise doesn't work that way. Someone that take a close look at the druid wildshaped into a cat can say "It is not a true cat, it is something different disguised as a cat." by he can't see/recognize what is the original form of the creature.
Perception isn't true seeing.
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From your own quote there, while breathing isn't extraordinary or supernatural, neither is it mentioned as being lost along with natural attacks and movement types. Nor does polymorph say anything about "form dependent" abilities, let alone that they are lost.
So, when I am in cat form I can grasp things in my hands, write, play the flute, and so on.
RAW you are correct, but if I don't lose the abilities that are form-dependent, I can do all the above stuff.
It is a logic that should be used both ways.
Technically I don't even lose the ability to speak. I only lose the ability to cast spells with verbal and somatic components.
"Curiously" there are ways to "regain" the ability to speak while in a different form, but nowhere in the Polymorph rules it say that you lose it.
It implies it, when it says: "can only cast spells with somatic or verbal components if the form you choose has the capability to make such movements or speak, such as a dragon", but where it says that you lose the ability to speak?
Wild Shape works like Beast Shape, which inherits properties from the Polymorph rules, which say you never lose your inherent ability to breathe, only gain extra capabilities from forms that can swim or burrow.
If you want to be literal, Wild Shape is not affected by the polymorph rules, because those exclusively talk about polymorph spell.
Also, from Baleful Polymorph: "If the new form would prove fatal to the creature, such as an aquatic creature not in water, the subject gets a +4 bonus on the save." If you retain the ability to breath whatever you could breath before, an aquatic form wouldn't be fatal.
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Wild Shape works like Beast Shape, which inherits properties from the Polymorph rules, which say you never lose your inherent ability to breathe, only gain extra capabilities from forms that can swim or burrow.If you want to be literal, Wild Shape is not affected by the polymorph rules, because those exclusively talk about polymorph spell.
It works like the spell, so it inherited the polymorph rules.
Also, from Baleful Polymorph: "If the new form would prove fatal to the creature, such as an aquatic creature not in water, the subject gets a +4 bonus on the save." If you retain the ability to breath whatever you could breath before, an aquatic form wouldn't be fatal.
Even if it can breathe air, moving on land is difficult for most fish.
But even without getting to that extreme, things like "You are a fire elemental that needs to breathe air. A specific mix of oxygen and nitrogen, to be precise." can be game-changing. Energy resistance 30 means very little if you suffocate from smoke inhalation or lack of oxygen when you enter a raging fire. Or if you start to have problems as soon as start flying at high quotes in an air elemental form.To have the polymorph effects work "as intended" we need to use some assumption that is against the more strict RAW reading.
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I assumed the Baleful Polymorph verbiage was a leftover artifact from the 3.5 wording to the Pathfinder wording.
And not addressing what happens when you change form and you lose your normal appendages and other parts that are needed for your non-SU/EX abilities is an artifact of the changes in the polymorph rules.
3.5 and before, you were the creature, in Pathfinder you wear a creature suit but not all rules consider the consequences of that change.