Can I trip a target within 10ft?


Rules Discussion

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Blake's Tiger wrote:

I'm becoming more certain that the term "unarmed attack" always refers to the body part capable of making an attack.

...

That's largely the way that I've always read it, although it sometimes refers to how the body part is used rather than simply which body part is involved. Your hand, for example, isn't always an unarmed attack, but it is if it's made into a fist or used in a stance.

This new definition of unarmed attack would throw that interpretation into disarray, though.


The configuration of your hand doesn't matter in regards to making an unarmed strike. The fist is explicitly listed of an example of how you might use a part of your body to make a Strike, and doing so with a part of your body makes it a weapon with unarmed, nonlethal, agile, and finesse traits.

The Trip action also does not care about the configuration of your hand, only that it is free. Since the unarmed trait causes the fist to work like a free-hand weapon, so the hand is free in a fist configuration anyhow.

Now, the Cloud Giant's fists have the Reach trait and does not have the Trip trait. Do they only have reach when punching and the Cloud Giant can only use its hands to Trip adjacent creatures? Or can the Cloud Giant trip you from 15 ft away? (Oddly, it doesn't have the Unarmed trait)

How do we reconcile a giant's fist with reach with granting reach to a human's fist?

Though, still, the core confusion stems from Paizo occasionally using "unarmed attacks" in places where they mean "unarmed strikes" when "unarmed strikes" does exist as a clarifying term.

EDIT: More examples of redundant traits on unarmed attacks.
Iron Fists: orc fists gain the Shove trait. Orcs can't Shove with their hands without that?


Blake's Tiger wrote:
Orcs can't Shove with their hands without that?

They can't shove with their Fists without it, yes. That's what the trait does.


Gisher wrote:
SuperBidi wrote:
The Raven Black wrote:
aobst128 wrote:
Gisher wrote:
Blake's Tiger, I think you missed my point. If free hand trips are unarmed attacks, then there is absolutely no additional benefit to using wolf jaw unarmed attacks to trip instead of just performing the trip free-handed.
The benefit is that you get to add your item bonus from hand wraps to trips.
Gisher noted above that, if we use the difference between unarmed attacks and unarmed strikes to make our decision, the item bonus from handwraps would apply to free-handed trips too.
Nope. Handwraps of Mighty Blows give only bonuses to attack rolls and as such it doesn't apply to Trip (which asks for an Athletics check and not an attack roll) whatever your interpreation.
Please cite the text stating that Handwraps only apply rune bonuses to attack rolls. I can't find it anywhere in the Handwraps entry.

"For example, +1 striking handwraps of mighty blows would give you a +1 item bonus to attack rolls with your unarmed attacks "

"Magical enhancements make this weapon strike true. Attack rolls with this weapon gain a +1 item bonus, and the weapon can be etched with one property rune."

Liberty's Edge

SuperBidi wrote:
Gisher wrote:
SuperBidi wrote:
The Raven Black wrote:
aobst128 wrote:
Gisher wrote:
Blake's Tiger, I think you missed my point. If free hand trips are unarmed attacks, then there is absolutely no additional benefit to using wolf jaw unarmed attacks to trip instead of just performing the trip free-handed.
The benefit is that you get to add your item bonus from hand wraps to trips.
Gisher noted above that, if we use the difference between unarmed attacks and unarmed strikes to make our decision, the item bonus from handwraps would apply to free-handed trips too.
Nope. Handwraps of Mighty Blows give only bonuses to attack rolls and as such it doesn't apply to Trip (which asks for an Athletics check and not an attack roll) whatever your interpreation.
Please cite the text stating that Handwraps only apply rune bonuses to attack rolls. I can't find it anywhere in the Handwraps entry.

"For example, +1 striking handwraps of mighty blows would give you a +1 item bonus to attack rolls with your unarmed attacks "

"Magical enhancements make this weapon strike true. Attack rolls with this weapon gain a +1 item bonus, and the weapon can be etched with one property rune."

Take into account the Trip trait though.

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