This started as a build to try out the new Broken Cycle Solarion but than I fell in love with the Heavy Landing ability. Otherwise the theme is "Shadow Solarion" (shame the "blade in the night" revelation sucks) anyways this is what I have so far.
Note: This Build assumes Max Lvl 13
Note2: Since this is a Broken cycle build being attuned is basically assumed to be always = true in combat and fully attuned only a few rounds in. Same w/ sidereal influence outside of combat.
Broken Cycle Solarion w/ Lunar Weapon
Race: Skilled Nograv Ysoki (+4 Dex, -2 Con)
Theme: Athlete (Acrobatics, what starfinder sport? thinking Brutaris?) or Noble Scion (Heir or Legacy member of a Jedi-like group) or ???
Deity: Accelsys (character is obsessed with speed and mobility)
Skill Adept: Disguise and Bluff (Just makes them class skills)
Sidereal Influence: Disguise & Sense Motive, Add Stealth @ Lvl 11, Add Bluff @ Lvl 12 (+1d6 to skill checks)
Stats
Str 10 +2 (Stat up @ 10) = 12
Dex 16 +2 (Stat up @ 5)+ 4 (augment) = 22
Con 10 +4 (Stat Up @ 5 & 10) = 14
Int 10 +4 (Stat up @ 5 & 10) = 14
Wis 10 +2 (Stat up @ 10) = 12
Cha 16 +2 (Stat up@ 5)+ 2 (augment) = 20
Stat up 5 = Dex, Cha, Con and Int (@5) - Catch up Percep/Disguise
Stat up 10 = Con, Str, Wis and Int (@10) – Add ??? Skill
Skills: Acrobatics, Bluff, Sense Motive, Stealth & Alternate Perception/Disguise until Lvl 5
Equip: Solarion "Claw" w/ ??? Crystal and Soulfire Infusion (adds cha to damage)
Revelations
2 Heavy Landing (Requires 2) = Reduce fall damage by lvl than add that damage to your next melee attack, add cha mod to this extra damage as well if fully attuned
4 Eclipse Defense (Requires 4) = reduce melee attack damage by 1/2 if you beat KAC+4 w/ melee atk
6 Defy Gravity (Requires 6) = fly for a single move action (use land speed+10ft) than fall if not on solid ground, its basically force jump, I intend to purposefully "fall" to mix it with Heavy landing+Three Point Stance
8 Warp Perception (Requires 6) = reduce disguise DC by up to half lvl
9 Weapon Orbit (Requires 6) = can throw melee weapons as an attack than have them return
10 Stealth Warp (Requires 10) = it's basically hide in plain sight
12 Weighty Influence (Requires 10) = increases sidereal bonus dice from d6 -> d8 and adds a skill
Feats
1 WF: Lunar Claws = +1 Atk rolls
3 Three Point Stance = reduce fall damage by 1d6 and don't fall prone
5 Fleet = +10 land speed
7 Effortless Aerobatics = flying up doesn't cost double
9 ???
11 ???
13 ???
Other Possible Feats: Nimble Moves, Scurry, Underfoot, ???
I don't have something specifically helpful to offer, except to say that I think trying to optimize around Heavy Landing is going to be hard.
You're not usually going to fall that often, and it's very easy (if desired) to avoid falling. So you would need to create situations for yourself to fall, but just getting into position where you can make a full attack is almost certainly going to have a bigger damage benefit. The majority of your damage comes from your weapon damage dice (at least a medium to higher levels). The bonus damage from Heavy Landing isn't going to make up the difference for wasting actions to set up falls.
Remember, at level 7 you get a reduced penalty for making a full attack and at level 13 you get to make 3 melee attacks instead of 2.
I just can't see a way to make Heavy Landing your main thing without handicapping yourself.
About the only way to make it useful (but not your main thing) is to have a good thrown weapon/ranged weapon, and then use defy gravity to get above targets when you need to double move to close the range, and can't get close enough to attack or can't charge.
Then throw, finish the move next turn and get the bonus damage as you continue to close in. That way you get to attack every turn, and get the bonus damage.
But... you won't be doing this every combat, so trying to further spec into it seems... of dubious value. Even worse, you probably won't be fully attuned when you use the revelations, so you won't get the bonus +cha modifier from heavy landing, just what it prevented.
You're not usually going to fall that often
Lvl 1 to 5 will be a bit difficult as I'll rely on terrain (to jump off of) and acrobatics to jump but I pick up Defy gravity at Lvl 6 which lets me fly for a single move than it specifically says that if I don't end my movement on solid ground I fall, so it's move -> fall -> stab. Three point stand makes it so i NEVER fall prone and before that I can utilize Ysoki's moxie to stand as a swift action.
Remember, at level 7 you get a reduced penalty for making a full attack and at level 13 you get to make 3 melee attacks instead of 2.I just can't see a way to make Heavy Landing your main thing without handicapping yourself.
This I can't argue with I realize its not optimal which is why I'm trying to optimize it as much as possible so its not so bad I'm useless.
About the only way to make it useful (but not your main thing) is to have a good thrown weapon/ranged weapon, and then use defy gravity to get above targets when you need to double move to close the range, and can't get close enough to attack or can't charge.
Then throw, finish the move next turn and get the bonus damage as you continue to close in. That way you get to attack every turn, and get the bonus damage.
But... you won't be doing this every combat, so trying to further spec into it seems... of dubious value. Even worse, you probably won't be fully attuned when you use the revelations, so you won't get the bonus +cha modifier from heavy landing, just what it prevented.
I don't really understand what your saying here
1) How am I double moving than making a ranged attack?
2) Heavy Landing only affects melee attacks not ranged ones
3) Why wouldn't I be fully attuned, I'd be fully attuned by the start of the 3rd rd. and I'm a Broken Cycle so I have little reason to break attunement.
4) To be fair I have a feeling the cha to damage from soulfire fusion and the cha to damage from heavy landing probably don't stack assuming double stacking the same stat is a no go like in pathfinder.
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You're not usually going to fall that oftenLvl 1 to 5 will be a bit difficult as I'll rely on terrain (to jump off of) and acrobatics to jump but I pick up Defy gravity at Lvl 6 which lets me fly for a single move than it specifically says that if I don't end my movement on solid ground I fall, so it's move -> fall -> stab. Three point stand makes it so i NEVER fall prone and before that I can utilize Ysoki's moxie to stand as a swift action.
To be honest I don't think 3 point stance will help you all that much.
It prevents damage, but the damage you would take is how you get bonus damage. I guess if you would fall from too high it could mitigate the damage beyond what Heavy Landing would absorb, but honestly you're not going to have to worry about that too much. You only take 1d6 of damage per 10ft fallen. You speed is 40ft, but remember under normal conditions every square of movement up costs an additional 5ft of movement. So, if you're on the ground, you will only be able to fly up 20ft. Meaning you will only get 2d6 of falling damage, which will average to 7 points of damage. Which will completely absorb at level 7. Sure, you can find some ways to boost your movement speed and probably get up to 30ft in the air for 3d6 eventually, which will let you add 10.5 points of damage on average.
Even at low levels this simply isn't a good tactic.
It's not bad if you could start combat while flying 30ft in the air and just use this to start combats with some extra bonuses, but defy gravity wont let you do that.
To be honest I don't think 3 point stance will help you all that much.It prevents damage, but the damage you would take is how you get bonus damage. I guess if you would fall from too high it could mitigate the damage beyond what Heavy Landing would absorb, but honestly you're not going to have to worry about that too much. You only take 1d6 of damage per 10ft fallen. You speed is 40ft, but remember under normal conditions every square of movement up costs an additional 5ft of movement. So, if you're on the ground, you will only be able to fly up 20ft. Meaning you will only get 2d6 of falling damage, which will average to 7 points of damage. Which will completely absorb at level 7. Sure, you can find some ways to boost your movement speed and probably get up to 30ft in the air for 3d6 eventually, which will let you add 10.5 points of damage on average.
Even at low levels this simply isn't a good tactic.
It's not bad if you could start combat while flying 30ft in the air and just use this to start combats with some extra bonuses, but defy gravity wont let you do that.
3pt. Stance is mainly for the never fall prone part and the extra 1d6 reduction is only there IF my heavy landing doesn't reduce the whole thing, I don't know what RAW would insist that the 1d6 damage would be removed BEFORE heavy landing but if the GM rules it that way ill just take Improved Kip-up that lets you stand as a reaction and eventually as a free action.
As for moving up effortless aerobatics removes the half speed problem (When flying, it costs you no additional feet of movement to ascend.) and I get +10 from fleet (devy gravity uses my land speed) and being gravity attuned gets me a further +10ft which = 50ft Fly speed totalling 6D6.
That said I might take Effortless Aerobatics at Lvl 5 than fleet at 7 instead of the other way around so I don't have to fly half-speed even for the 1 level (level 6).
Oh that ALSO reminds me that theres augmentations that increase your land speed which would increase my defy gravity speed since its based on my land speed so I'll be sure to invest in those ASAP.
Speed Suspension Lvl 4/8/12: +10/20/30ft Respectively
https://www.aonsrd.com/Cybernetics.aspx?ItemName=Minimal&Family=Speed%2 0Suspension
I can even put these in prosthetic limbs so hideaway limbs would help me hide stuff :)
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Needs a friend with a flying drone named "Top Rope"
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Needs a friend with a flying drone named "Top Rope"
:D
I could buy one of these, he can film my exploits :)
https://www.aonsrd.com/TechItems.aspx?ItemName=Spy%20Drone&Family=None
Assuming I fail encourage someone to play a mech w/ a flying drone or vehicle :P
I did not realize effortless acrobatics helped fly speed.
I just assumed it was related to (more normal) acrobatic things. Kind of ignoring that acrobatics absorbed the fly skill, and so it might include flight related things under such a feat name.
I did not realize effortless acrobatics helped fly speed.
I just assumed it was related to (more normal) acrobatic things. Kind of ignoring that acrobatics absorbed the fly skill, and so it might include flight related things under such a feat name.
Effortless AERObatics ;D Easy mistake to make and I may have even mispelled it in previous posts
https://www.aonsrd.com/FeatDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Effortless%20Aerobatics
So, with that ability to fly up unhindered it will help.
Although, I'm going to assume that typically you're not going to be able to fly straight up with all your movement because the enemy is typically not going to be adjacent to you. I would expect somewhere between around 10-20ft of movement to be expended at the first round and anytime you need to switch enemies of moving in between them. So part of the time you can 30ft up for 3d6, and part of the time you can get 50ft up for 5d6.
Since normally melee approach also loses damage when they have to move, you're not sacrificing too much. I think the bonus damage can keep you competitive against a regular full attack routine, at least until level 13 when they would gain a 3rd attack on a full attack. But since you're only playing through level 13 I think you can make it work.
The main thing you're going to worry about is that you're going to take damage above and beyond what Heavy Landing and 3 Point Stance can absorb.
At level 7, if you fly up 50ft you're going to take an average of 17.5 damage. 7 will be prevented by Heavy Landing, and 3.5 by 3 point stance. Leaving you taking about 7 damage each time you do this.
Of course, you could fly not so high, only up to 30ft so your chance of taking any actual damage is reduced. But then you'll only deal 10.5 pt of damage from Heavy Landing and goes back to less competitive against a full attack.
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The Ferran racial Momentum ability helps with this build, you get to add your character level in damage to your first melee attack in a round if you move (or here fall) 10' or more first.
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The Ferran racial Momentum ability helps with this build, you get to add your character level in damage to your first melee attack in a round if you move (or here fall) 10' or more first.
The lack of racial support for the Solarion class hurts though. No str, dex, or cha support whatsoever.
It will give a damage bonus, but the penalty to attack modifier will hurt.
Currently the OP has designed the character as a dex/cha based character which will take advantage of the soulfire infusion.
Though, another route would be a str/cha based character that spends a feat on heavy armor. Although this route would negate the ability to use the fleet feat.
Though, I'm not sure how much stacking of speed is useful since eventually the damage bonus you'll get from falling is outstripped by the damage you will cause to yourself. Even at level 20 you would cap out at 20 points of bonus damage from Heavy landing, at 60ft of vertical drop gets you 6d6 points of damage (which is 21 damage on average). Once you can regularly get to 60ft above ground, extra speed doesn't help you to further increase your damage and instead would cause you take actual falling damage (though 3 point stance will negate some of it).
The complete speed suspension get's you an extra 30ft of movement speed, for a total of 60ft. The standard will get you 20ft, and if you are graviton attuned when you use it then you're still at 60ft fly speed.
A bit of speed over 60ft could help to get you into position in the opening round of combat where you wont already be flying so it's a completely bad idea.
This combat style will get hosed inside typical buildings and starships where you usually have at most 20ft tall rooms. And that's a huge drawback I just thought of.
In the last adventure path I played, I think at least 80% of combat took place inside a room/starship.
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We also have to look at tradeoffs like Plasma Sheath, which has been the "standard" for adding damage to Solarions. Spend a move action and stay in photon attunement to add half you level in damage.
With two successful attacks with Plasma Sheath, you're adding as much bonus damage as Heavy Landing can, but you also get you weapon dice and str(& cha with soulfire infusion), albeit that you're also taking a penalty to hit by making a full attack.
I tried to do a similar build back when Heavy Landing was revealed. The route I took was Ferran, STR main stat, 1 level of Soldier for heavy armor and better Key Ability Score linkage, and then every subsequent level in Solarian (solar weapon, plasma sheath, stellar rush, defy gravity, heavy landing). This lets you almost "quadruple-dip" on character level to damage:
- weapon specialization for 1x
- heavy landing for up to 1x
- ferran momentum for 1x
- plasma sheath for 0.5x
- photon attunement for ~0.2x
You hit only once per round, but for hilarious amounts of damage (at 12th level about 6d6+50) while staying fully mobile.
The moment I started thinking about how it would work in practice, to fly up sufficiently high each round in a typical AP, my dreams of aerial meteorite striking bad guys kind of soured. As Claxon points out, it's not very practical.
Honestly, I thought the idea was pretty manageable until I thought about all the Starfinder campaign experience I had, and maybe 20% of battles are fought out doors where your fly height isn't going to be limited to something below what you want. 20 to 30ft it pretty common as a maximum height, which creates both a literal and figurative ceiling for how effective Heavy Landing can be :(
But maybe in a specific campaign, or with a GM who was willing to work with you such that your not limited in available height I think this is viable enough to keep up.
However, I do think I'd do like Cellion suggests and make a strength based solarion character with a 1 level dip in soldier for heavy armor, long arm proficiency, and Blitz fighting style init and movement speed bonus. It's a really strong dip for solarions, and that speed boost is really helpful to becoming the Red Comet....
Now that I think about it I'm still tempted to make a character do this thing and name him Char.
Damn I got so excited about a fun idea I didn't even consider the problem of roofs, I'll have to check with my GM to see if that'll be viable otherwise that does completely bork the idea. Dammit.
Thanks for all the help nonetheless, if it gets shelved the idea will be kept for a more open terrain campaign.
I like your ideas but it’s difficult to make them work. Consider that the lunar weapon does less damage than the solar sword. Broken Cycle Graviton also means forgoing important Solarian revelations like Stellar Rush, Soul Furnace, and Plasma Sheath. You’ve selected a low damage output build for a class designed for melee combat.
To make a viable character, you must work around these limitations. Raise your +hit as high as possible so you hit more often. Maximize dexterity and take feats like weapon focus. High dex gives you more AC, initiative, and reflex, there is no reason not to have an 18. Going into melee with an eight con is a bad idea. You can’t hit the opponent when you’re unconscious. Do you need to play a Yoski? Your best bet is a race that dumps wisdom, like a Damai. With a standard build, you can have 10 str, 18 dex, 10 con, 10 int, 8 wis, 16 cha. They also have nice abilities.
Heavy landing can give you 1 or 2 extra d6 damage. You’ll want to get that every round but leaping with Defy Gravity gives opponents an attack of opportunity when you move. How about Tidal Surge instead? You can leap over your opponent every round, getting the Heavy Landing damage along with +2 to hit with Tidal Surge. If you take the Jet Dash feat and leapers for the armor slot, at 6th level you can jump a minimum of about 12 feet straight up without a running start.
If you’re going full Graviton, you might also consider taking Dark Matter or Gravitic Reinforcement instead of Eclipse Defense. Eclipse Defense is bad. Gravity Anchor is a great way to shut down casters. What about Gravity Boost? At sixth level you can spider climb up walls and drop onto your opponent. I might go with something like this:
Level 1. Feat: weapon focus
Level 2. Revelation: Gravity Anchor (for shutting down casters)
Level 3. Feat: Fleet
Level 4. Revelation: Heavy Landing
Level 5. Feat: Jet Dash
Level 6. Revelation: Tidal Surge.
Level 7. Feat: Coordinated Shot
Level 8. Revelation: Dark Interaction
Level 9. Revelation: Gravitic Reinforcement (+2 to all saves), Feat: Deflect Projectiles.
Instead of Weapon Orbit, consider getting the Extra Manifestation alternate class feature at 9th level and grab Solar Flare.
Level 10: Revelation: Stealth Warp
Level 11: Feat: Defensive Roll
Consider taking the Space Pirate theme. If the campaign goes long and you hit level 12, you can use Sword and Pistol to get two attacks for a standard action. It pairs great with Stealth Warp. I’m late for the party, but I hope you see this.