The Book of the Dead says that ghost characters get a fly speed.
You can float but are still tethered to the ground. Replace your land Speed with an equal fly Speed. You can’t rise more than a few inches above the ground when you Fly. This means you can move above many types of difficult or hazardous terrain without moving slowly or being damaged, even though you can’t fly without limit. You can Leap, High Jump, Long Jump, and take similar actions, and use your fly Speed for any calculations that would normally require your land Speed.
The rules for flying say that if you wish to fly in place, you must hover, which is an action. If you don't, you fall.
Does this mean that stationary ghosts are, in effect, slowed 1? What happens when they fall because they didn't hover? Do they miss the ground and keep flying like in Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy?
In short, how do these rules interact?
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The Book of the Dead says that ghost characters get a fly speed.
You can float but are still tethered to the ground. Replace your land Speed with an equal fly Speed. You can’t rise more than a few inches above the ground when you Fly. This means you can move above many types of difficult or hazardous terrain without moving slowly or being damaged, even though you can’t fly without limit. You can Leap, High Jump, Long Jump, and take similar actions, and use your fly Speed for any calculations that would normally require your land Speed.The rules for flying say that if you wish to fly in place, you must hover, which is an action. If you don't, you fall.
Does this mean that stationary ghosts are, in effect, slowed 1? What happens when they fall because they didn't hover? Do they miss the ground and keep flying like in Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy?
In short, how do these rules interact?
No.
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Haven't you made this thread like a dozen times and been basically universally told "no" each time? I know you seem to play this game using the most hyper-literal interpretation of RAW possible, Mr. "if you stand inside a wall of fire you take no damage", but you really need to try and apply common sense to how the game operates.
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I mean, yes... but does it matter if they only fall fall / descend a few inches.
I don't have the book but even if they have the incorporeal trait they don't auto move through objects. They "can" choose to move through objects.
An incorporeal creature or object has no physical form. It can pass through solid objects, including walls.
If we are going to take the ultra literal reading surely we must read can as permissive ;)
Haven't you made this thread like a dozen times and been basically universally told "no" each time?
Er...um...have I? My memory isn't that great.
Also, people seem to hate thread necros.
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The Book of the Dead says that ghost characters get a fly speed.
You can float but are still tethered to the ground. Replace your land Speed with an equal fly Speed. You can’t rise more than a few inches above the ground when you Fly. This means you can move above many types of difficult or hazardous terrain without moving slowly or being damaged, even though you can’t fly without limit. You can Leap, High Jump, Long Jump, and take similar actions, and use your fly Speed for any calculations that would normally require your land Speed.The rules for flying say that if you wish to fly in place, you must hover, which is an action. If you don't, you fall.
Does this mean that stationary ghosts are, in effect, slowed 1? What happens when they fall because they didn't hover? Do they miss the ground and keep flying like in Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy?
In short, how do these rules interact?
The obvious answer is that if you're playing a ghost, when you stop moving, you should generally choose to land. There's nothing stopping you from just landing at the end of your movement. If you decide that you really want to keep hovering... then sure. You go ahead and have fun with that... but that's you choosing to do that silly thing.
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If they can't fall then all of my future Paladin characters will be ghosts. ;)
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I think it's fine if staying up in the air takes ongoing effort, while hovering at ground level doesn't.
Even more so for NPC incorporeals; since you can't get ghost touch on ranged attacks, that resistance to most other damage is really really strong for a monster that can also play keep-away. Let them work for it, don't cut them slack on the RAW.
If they can't fall then all of my future Paladin characters will be ghosts. ;)"Oh, poor soul that can't find peace and a way to the afterlife... tell me your sad story... what prevents you to put an end to your pity existance..."
"Actually, I killed myself in order to become a ghost. I was kinda bored getting tripped all the time and have to hit master acrobatics to get kip up"
"Say what?"
Huh. You can't trip flying targets? Are you sure?
Huh. You can't trip flying targets? Are you sure?If they can't fall then all of my future Paladin characters will be ghosts. ;)"Oh, poor soul that can't find peace and a way to the afterlife... tell me your sad story... what prevents you to put an end to your pity existance..."
"Actually, I killed myself in order to become a ghost. I was kinda bored getting tripped all the time and have to hit master acrobatics to get kip up"
"Say what?"
Can you? I could have sworn I've seen some people claiming that you can and others claiming that you can't in 2nd Edition.
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You can trip flying targets. No rule says otherwise, and the Prone condition explains what happens if you are knocked prone while flying. You fall.
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So, PF1 rules explicitly say that flying creatures cannot be tripped (or at least states that there are a number of monsters that cannot be tripped, and that "flying" is one of the justifications for such). PF2 has no such rule - trip is just a combat maneuver that inflicts prone, and all it requires is that you have a hand free, and that the target not be more than one size larger than you.
Prone: "If you would be knocked prone while you're Climbing or Flying, you fall (see Falling for the rules on falling). You can't be knocked prone when Swimming."
Falling: "When you fall more than 5 feet, you take bludgeoning damage equal to half the distance you fell when you land. Treat falls longer than 1,500 feet as though they were 1,500 feet (750 damage). If you take any damage from a fall, you land prone. You fall about 500 feet in the first round of falling and about 1,500 feet each round thereafter."
So, technically, your "hovering three inches above the ground" ghost can be tripped... at which point they will drop less than five feet to no meaningful effect. Well, at that point they won't be flying anymore, I suppose, so you can at least trip them normally.
And finally, Fly: "You move through the air up to your fly Speed. Moving upward (straight up or diagonally) uses the rules for moving through difficult terrain. You can move straight down 10 feet for every 5 feet of movement you spend. If you Fly to the ground, you don’t take falling damage. You can use an action to Fly 0 feet to hover in place. If you’re airborne at the end of your turn and didn’t use a Fly action this round, you fall."
So, really, I was wrong. Ghosts should not land after flying. Instead, they should stop somewhere in the air a short distance above their destination, so they have that one round of protection against tripping. After they finish a round of not flying, they drop to the ground, but it doesn't cause meaningful harm.
If you have any sort of resistance to bludgeoning, then the distance you can drop without meaningful cost goes up accordingly. You only drop prone at the end if you actually take damage.
If a PC ghost is the beneficiary of a fly effect (such as the spell), are they still anchored to the earth due to the limitations of their Floating ability?
After all, fly only grants a fly speed (which a PC ghost already has) and does nothing to actually remove Floating's limitations on flight.
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If a PC ghost is the beneficiary of a fly effect (such as the spell), are they still anchored to the earth due to the limitations of their Floating ability?
After all, fly only grants a fly speed (which a PC ghost already has) and does nothing to actually remove Floating's limitations on flight.
No? Ghost grants a fly speed with specific restrictions, fly grants a fly speed without restrictions (other than the general ones).
They are both fly speeds but the latter does not inherit the restrictions of the former.
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While incorporeal creatures can enter solid objects, nothing says that they have to pass through a solid object if they encounter one, only that they can pass through solid objects. This leads me to rule that incorporeal creatures can indeed land on sufficiently dense material, such as the ground, meaning that if an incorporeal creature with only a Fly speed does not Fly they just stay in the square they are in.
Trying again now that the book is out.
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It makes no difference. Your question is not phrased correctly and that is causing your confusion.
The Fly action says If you’re airborne at the end of your turn and didn’t use a Fly action this round, you fall
A Ghost at ground level or even inside an object is not Airborne.