Can you combine Lich and Swarm that walks templates?


Rules Questions

Scarab Sages

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Just a curiosity here but could you combine lich/demi-lich with swarm that walks to create an undead swarm or a demi-lich that is a skill but forms a body out of insects?

Liberty's Edge

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Lich wrote:
“Lich” is an acquired template that can be added to any living creature (referred to hereafter as the base creature), provided it can create the required phylactery. A lich retains all the base creature's statistics and special abilities except as noted here.
phylactery wrote:
An integral part of becoming a lich is the creation of the phylactery in which the character stores his soul. The only way to get rid of a lich for sure is to destroy its phylactery. Unless its phylactery is located and destroyed, a lich can rejuvenate after it is killed (see Creating a Lich, below).
Worm that walks wrote:
When a powerful spellcaster with a strong personality, a lust for life, and a remorselessly evil soul dies and is buried in a graveyard infused with eldritch magic, a strange phenomenon sometimes occurs. The flesh of the decaying body fats and instructs the very worms that gnaw, and these graveworms quicken not only on corruption but upon the spellcaster’s memories and magical power. The spellcaster’s very soul is consumed in this vile process, only to be split apart to inhabit each of the individual chewing worms in so many fragments.

The Worm that walk is alive, so, in theory, he can become a lich.

A lich can't become a worm that walks.

As a GM I would say that he would have problems creating a phylactery, as his soul is fragmented.
Only an extremely knowledgeable lich would be capable to do that, and maybe he would get the ability to make multiple phylacteries (if I recall correctly, there is one mythic lich that did that in the history of Golarion).

Essentially, you would create a new monster. You should decide what is capable to do and how its abilities work.


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Yes.

Worm That Walks must come first, though.

Your type changes to vermin, but you are still a living creature... thus qualifying to become a Lich.


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I made one of these and yes they become WtW first.


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I had a DM that threw this exact combination at us as the BBEG… it was a horrible encounter for us as players… we lost 3 party members and those of us who survived barely managed to escape by sending it to a random desert…

Scarab Sages

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So general opinion seems to be you can be a worm that walks which becomes a lich (undead worms?) but not a lich that becomes a worm that walks. You also don't want to face a worm that walks lich much less an awakened demilich.

Could be quite a scary threat of less world ruling than Tar Bephon but more simply one pursuing their own goals with no interest in ruling but merely accumulating greater knowledge and power.

Hmmm a lvl 18 Undead master worm that walks lich may make an appearance in my games at some point.


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Senko wrote:

So general opinion seems to be you can be a worm that walks which becomes a lich (undead worms?) but not a lich that becomes a worm that walks. You also don't want to face a worm that walks lich much less an awakened demilich.

Could be quite a scary threat of less world ruling than Tar Bephon but more simply one pursuing their own goals with no interest in ruling but merely accumulating greater knowledge and power.

Hmmm a lvl 18 Undead master worm that walks lich may make an appearance in my games at some point.

When I made my lich wtw I had its phylactery be a ring that was cursed/beneficial effects (hybrid of a +5 protection and ring of regeneration) with the curse having the hold if not the lich become obsessed with it (kind of like the one ring but instead of wanting to return to owner it just made them want the ring above all else)… then he gave it to a grest wyrm red dragon as a gift Knowing that if somehow he was slain his slayers would have to deal with a great wyrm to permanently kill him.


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It is doable by RAW.

Advice: Personally, you should only combine basic templates with another template as they are not balanced for accumulation of power. The Advanced template is AWESOME and the Young template can be fudging.

For something special and dramatic I think it's okay to mix the unusual. Don't forget to add in a supporting backdrop/backstory to explain/justify the unusual mix. Some templates are (literally) dead ends, so you have to apply them in a sensible manner.

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