The engineer has a single reaction ( though he could get a second one through the bastion dedication, provided he's going to use a shield ), and I was wondering about these 2 one ( anyway, we are talking about high level- endgame adventure ).
To begin with, is there a way to have:
+3 crafting item bonus?
+2 circumstance bonus?
Something which is going to work for the check ( so I doubt speciality crafting might necessarily work. Or if you think so, please feel free to explain ).
Apart from that, what do you think would be better?
To reduce by 15 the incoming damage or to get a high AC so you won't probably be hit?
Assuming a lvl 16 character with +2 item bonus and +2 circumstance bonus, his crafting skill would be 10 ( flat ) + 16 ( level ) +8 ( master prof ) +5 ( int ) +2 ( item ) +2 ( circ ) = +44
The average armor for an engineer would be 37 ( 39 with the shield raised ).
Even if this is going to transform a hit into a failure 1 time out of 2, I think it's going to be better than 15 DR*2 ( by lvl 18 it won't be that much, but given the permanent armor DR, it would be 15+9= 24 DR on the first attack, and then 9 DR on the successive attacks ).
I admit I am quite impressed by the armor innovation, especially at higher levels, but given the insane AC an inventor could get ( and since AC is always better than DR ) I wonder whether I should rely on the former or latter feat.
Specialty Crafting only work for crafting an item so it would not work, so don't have a reliable way to get circumstance bonus to the crafting DC for the reaction, though status bonus is easier because of a few spells.
The skill value of crafting at lvl 16 would be +31 meaning that the defense DC against the attack would be 41, while the normal AC of inventor would be 37, gaining effectively +4 "AC" in the reaction, looking at the calculator using dragons from lvl + 0 to +4 the average damage that YFTAFT reduces is between 15 and 22, so on average is better than stable negate damage
If you are raising shield with both then negate damage is always better (though if you are raising shield might be better to just block with the shield that blocks around the same damage...) and at lvl 19 inventor goes to master armor making the increase smaller as well as it's not two proficiency between crafting and armor anymore.
Have to consider that YFTAFT needs to be used before the attack is rolled, while Negate Damage is done at the damage phase, so it's never wasted and you can unstable it to negate 50 damage instead.
YFTAFT will reduce incoming damage by a third if you have +4 difference and a fifth with +2. So, if enemies deal 45 average damage with a Strike (before rolling the attack, not once they hit), it is equivalent to Negate Damage before level 19 and if they deal 75 average damage it's equivalent at level 19-20. So it's highly improbable in standard situations as most enemies will deal twice less damage.
But YFTAFT also handles well cases where your AC is reduced (because of Flat-Footed typically).
On the other hand, Negate Damage works against any type of damage not just AC targetting ones, and you have a crazy 50 points of reduction for Unstable.
So, Negate Damage is better but higher level and limited to Armor Innovation. In my opinion, Negate Damage should allow you to be nearly invincible. YFTAFT can be equivalent if you are in a very simple situation with one high level opponent. But as soon as spells or many low level enemies try to kill you, it loses much of it's potential. It's mostly interesting if you have penalties to AC.
YFTAFT would also result into less critical hits.
Point is that it seems thata permanent circ and status bonus is lacking, reducing ( not drastically reducing but still reducing ) its effectiveness.
Using the unstable reaction to reduce 35 damage ( 15 baseline because of the reaction )would be pretty stupid when you can use the same unstable one to get 10d10 healing.
So, unless you are brought down from 200 to -50 hp in a single round, I see no real reason to "waste" your unstable on something like that.
I think they are both fine as Superbidi said, and since I didn't have a lot of time to check new items and bonuses, I hoped for some barely decent items ( at least a +3 item bonus on crafting, given how ridiculous is the eye patch crafter which stops at +3 ), leaving apart the total absence of permanent circ bonuses ( status too, but they require spells the most ).
-15 dmg is good, but personally I think I'd still prefer to transform a hit into a miss or a critical one into a hit, rather than lower the damage by 15.
Does YFTAFT benefit from heroism?
Edit: I think it does: Quote: When someone or something tests your skill, they attempt a check against your skill DC, which is equal to 10 plus your skill modifier. If in late game, your party can provide +3 heroism, YFTAFT might be pretty good.
HumbleGamer wrote:
Using the unstable reaction to reduce 35 damage ( 15 baseline because of the reaction )would be pretty stupid when you can use the same unstable one to get 10d10 healing.
So, unless you are brought down from 200 to -50 hp in a single round, I see no real reason to "waste" your unstable on something like that.
Turning the argument back:
35 negated damage "without spending an action"
Vs
10d10 (55) with an action.
So,55-35=20
Is 20 healing worth an action at level 20?
I would say no imo.
shroudb wrote: HumbleGamer wrote:
Using the unstable reaction to reduce 35 damage ( 15 baseline because of the reaction )would be pretty stupid when you can use the same unstable one to get 10d10 healing.
So, unless you are brought down from 200 to -50 hp in a single round, I see no real reason to "waste" your unstable on something like that.
Turning the argument back:
35 negated damage "without spending an action"
Vs
10d10 (55) with an action.
So,55-35=20
Is 20 healing worth an action at level 20?
I would say no imo.
I can agree if you requires immediate DR, but we have to consider that the healing can be also used on other party members if needed, or even on yourself to get a few more hp ( on the following round ).
What bothers me most is the possibility to trigger an AoO.
Anyway, it's up to what you can do with your actions.
I expect any martial character to be permanent quickened by lvl 16/17 ( with the rune of speed ), so one extra action "might" be affordable.
HumbleGamer wrote: shroudb wrote: HumbleGamer wrote:
Using the unstable reaction to reduce 35 damage ( 15 baseline because of the reaction )would be pretty stupid when you can use the same unstable one to get 10d10 healing.
So, unless you are brought down from 200 to -50 hp in a single round, I see no real reason to "waste" your unstable on something like that.
Turning the argument back:
35 negated damage "without spending an action"
Vs
10d10 (55) with an action.
So,55-35=20
Is 20 healing worth an action at level 20?
I would say no imo.
I can agree if you requires immediate DR, but we have to consider that the healing can be also used on other party members if needed, or even on yourself to get a few more hp ( on the following round ).
What bothers me most is the possibility to trigger an AoO.
Anyway, it's up to what you can do with your actions.
I expect any martial character to be permanent quickened by lvl 16/17 ( with the rune of speed ), so one extra action "might" be affordable.
Even if we account for perma quick, I still feel that you can do much more than 20 healing with an action at that level.
That said, I do agree searing is nice for other uses as well, like allies, but (and that's totally my opinion) if I had access to both searing and Negate, I would always prioritise Negate as a spender for my own damage mitigation (as opposed waiting for my next turn and spending an action).
YFTAFT might be of high value if you reduce your AC on purpose.
The only way I can think of is multiclassing into Giant Barbarian and using YFTAFT to negate Clumsy and have good AC once a round. You could even get "Come And Get Me!" at lvl20 and negate the self-imposed flat-footed penalty with it. So +3 AC in that case. :)
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