Is there a way to increase a spell with a range of 0 ft.?


Rules Questions


1 person marked this as a favorite.

As it says on the tin.

Bonus question: does a spell with a range of 0 ft. and an area of effect necessarily include you in that effect?

I accept RAW and RAI and RAtT, and whatever else so long as you're clear which it is you're suggesting from.

Thank you all in advance!


2 people marked this as a favorite.

Play a mythic character. Both the Archmage and Hierophant path have path abilities that allow you to make a ranged touch attack in place of a melee touch attack.


2 people marked this as a favorite.

Infused spell cartridges can be used to deliver touch spells of 3rd level or lower. https://aonprd.com/FeatDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Infused%20Spell%20Cartridges


2 people marked this as a favorite.

Reach Spell (Metamagic)
Your spells go farther than normal.

Benefit: You can alter a spell with a range of touch, close, or medium to increase its range to a higher range category, using the following order: touch, close, medium, and long.

Level Increase: Special. A reach spell uses up a spell slot one level higher than the spell’s actual level for each increase in range category. For example, a spell with a range of touch increased to long range uses up a spell slot three levels higher.

Spells modified by this feat that require melee touch attacks instead require ranged touch attacks.

Spells that do not have a range of touch, close, or medium do not benefit from this feat.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Mysterious Stranger wrote:
Play a mythic character. Both the Archmage and Hierophant path have path abilities that allow you to make a ranged touch attack in place of a melee touch attack.
Trokarr wrote:
Infused spell cartridges can be used to deliver touch spells of 3rd level or lower. https://aonprd.com/FeatDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Infused%20Spell%20Cartridges
vhok wrote:

Reach Spell (Metamagic)

Your spells go farther than normal.

Benefit: You can alter a spell with a range of touch, close, or medium to increase its range to a higher range category, using the following order: touch, close, medium, and long.

Level Increase: Special. A reach spell uses up a spell slot one level higher than the spell’s actual level for each increase in range category. For example, a spell with a range of touch increased to long range uses up a spell slot three levels higher.

Spells modified by this feat that require melee touch attacks instead require ranged touch attacks.

Spells that do not have a range of touch, close, or medium do not benefit from this feat.

All of these are great, but I'm afraid they don't actually apply to a spell with "Range: 0 ft."

Core, pg 213 wrote:


Range

A spell’s range indicates how far from you it can reach, as defined in the range entry of the spell description. a spell’s range is the maximum distance from you that the spell’s effect can occur, as well as the maximum distance at which you can designate the spell’s point of origin. If any portion of the spell’s area would extend beyond this range, that area is wasted. Standard ranges include the following.

Personal

The spell affects only you.

Touch

You must touch a creature or object to affect it. A touch spell that deals damage can score a critical hit just as a weapon can. A touch spell threatens a critical hit on a natural roll of 20 and deals double damage on a successful critical hit. Some touch spells allow you to touch multiple targets. You can touch up to 6 willing targets as part of the casting, but all targets of the spell must be touched in the same round that you finish casting the spell. If the spell allows you to touch targets over multiple rounds, touching 6 creatures is a full-round action.

Close

The spell reaches as far as 25 feet away from you. The maximum range increases by 5 feet for every two full caster levels.

Medium

The spell reaches as far as 100 feet + 10 feet per caster level.

Long

The spell reaches as far as 400 feet + 40 feet per caster level.

Unlimited

The spell reaches anywhere on the same plane of existence.

Range Expressed in Feet

Some spells have no standard range category, just a range expressed in feet.

Emphasis mine, naturally.

A limited selection of spells with that range include:

https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/g/ghost-wolf/
https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/t/twine-double/https://www.d20pfs rd.com/magic/all-spells/t/thorn-javelin/
https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/p/pale-flame/
https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/d/divine-trident/
https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/p/produce-flame/
https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/i/ice-armor/
https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/b/blazing-rainbow/
https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/s/summon-instrument/
https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/i/ironwood
https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/s/sea-of-dust/
https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/b/beanstalk/
https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/p/phantom-steed/
https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/c/create-demiplane/

These are demonstrably not touch effects.

(I've not formatted them, nor looked them up elsewhere because it's more difficult and I don't currently have time; they're all first party/Paizo-specific, however.)

EDIT: So little time, I forgot to finish a senteeeeeeeeeence XD


2 people marked this as a favorite.

https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/p/produce-flame/

range 120 feet

https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/d/divine-trident/

its a trident so works as an actual weapon you can just throw it... i'm not taking the time to look at them all is there a specific one you want to know about or did u just fill out your spell slots with only zero foot spells for fun?


1 person marked this as a favorite.
vhok wrote:

https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/p/produce-flame/

range 120 feet

Understandable, but not actually correct:

Quote:

School evocation [fire]; Level druid 1, shaman 1; Domain fire 2

CASTING

Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S

EFFECT

Range 0 ft.
Effect flame in your palm
Duration 1 min./level (D)
Saving Throw none; Spell Resistance yes

vhok wrote:

https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/d/divine-trident/

its a trident so works as an actual weapon you can just throw it...

It "springs from your hand," but can it be manifested further away from you?

vhok wrote:
i'm not taking the time to look at them all is there a specific one you want to know about or did u just fill out your spell slots with only zero foot spells for fun?

Yes and also yes, as well as trying to get a bead on system mastery.

The Exchange

2 people marked this as a favorite.

As far as I know the answer is no; there's no way to increase the range.

Zero-range spells are a bit of a hack. They are spells that are intended to appear where the caster is but because they can go on to affect or be used by other people or objects they don't fit into the personal range category. Because the overall "personal" descriptor says "The spell only affects you." And because most of them create something - even if the school is not conjuration - then touch is not the right range either (since there's nothing to touch until you cast the spell).

Produce flame, for example, causes a flame to appear in your hand. That would be a personal range spell except that you can go on to throw it at people. Phantom steed lets you conjure a mount for another player. Blazing rainbow evokes a bow for you, but you can hand it to someone else to use.

Some of these spells - phantom steed and ice armor come to mind - could probably have been close range spells without changing the power balance or causing confusion. Ice armor (and probably some others) could alternatively have been touch range with minor changes to the spell text. But as is I think you are stuck with 0 feet.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Belafon wrote:

As far as I know the answer is no; there's no way to increase the range.

Zero-range spells are a bit of a hack. They are spells that are intended to appear where the caster is but because they can go on to affect or be used by other people or objects they don't fit into the personal range category. Because the overall "personal" descriptor says "The spell only affects you." And because most of them create something - even if the school is not conjuration - then touch is not the right range either (since there's nothing to touch until you cast the spell).

Produce flame, for example, causes a flame to appear in your hand. That would be a personal range spell except that you can go on to throw it at people. Phantom steed lets you conjure a mount for another player. Blazing rainbow evokes a bow for you, but you can hand it to someone else to use.

Some of these spells - phantom steed and ice armor come to mind - could probably have been close range spells without changing the power balance or causing confusion. Ice armor (and probably some others) could alternatively have been touch range with minor changes to the spell text. But as is I think you are stuck with 0 feet.

This is about what I've come to, conclusion-wise, as well, but I really wanted to get other opinions and see if there's anything that I'm missing for any reason.

You mentioned personally several of the items I was curious about, but:

- do you have to touch the wood you convert into ironwood?

- if you are in a demiplane of your own creation, and use create demiplane to add or remove a trait, do you have to be within the affected area, or can you be adjacent to it?

- ... ... ... I was going to ask something about Shadow Traced and produce flame and action use, but that didn't exactly work like I thought it did (I think I'm confusing it for something else), and the template was 3rd party anyway, so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

- aaaaaaactually, still not it, exactly, but it reminds me: is "range: 0 ft." considered "greater" than "range: touch" for purposes of spells like project image (which makes quite a bit of tactical difference)

- related, when you're using bilocation, where do effects with a range of "0 ft." function? So, for example, could {bilocation-self A} use summon instrument to have the instrument appear in {bilocation-self B}'s hands?

- tangentially related can someone else wield your divine trident?

These are just a few questions that kind of crop up when thinking about "range: 0 ft." spells and I really don't have good rule-based answers.


2 people marked this as a favorite.

This might work? You could cast the Produce Flame spell and give it to your familiar, and then let the familiar fly off and cast it later.

Familiar Spell wrote:

Familiar Spell (Metamagic)

You can imbue your familiar with a spell.

Prerequisites: Spellcaster with familiar class feature.

Benefit: You can transfer a prepared spell to your familiar, allowing the familiar to cast that spell at a later time. Variables that rely on caster level function according to your caster level, not your familiar’s Hit Dice, though your familiar’s Intelligence may influence how precisely it can follow your instructions on how to use these spells.

Your familiar must be able to speak to cast spells with a verbal component (the ability to speak with its master or creatures of its kind is insufficient). Your familiar must be carrying any material or focus components necessary, unless the materials cost less than 1 gp and the spell is prepared with Eschew Materials. Attack rolls use your familiar’s ability scores. A familiar spell counts against the number of spells you may prepare for as long as your familiar retains the spell. Once your familiar casts a retained spell, you can prepare a new spell in that slot the next time you prepare spells.

A familiar spell uses up a spell slot 3 levels higher than the spell’s actual level. Your familiar can store a number of spell levels (including this modifier) equal to your caster level, but no spell’s adjusted level can exceed half your caster level.

Special: If you are a spontaneous caster, you must select a specific spell with which to imbue your familiar; you cannot imbue your familiar with an open spell slot.

The Exchange

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Tacticslion wrote:
can someone else wield your divine trident?

Why I dislike d20pfsrd: it's really hard to check against the books sometimes because they have to rename everything that uses Paizo's IP. "Divine trident" is Gozreh's Trident.

Anyway the answer is: yes, someone else can use the Trident. There are plenty of spells (mainly personal range) that have limitations of "only you can use this weapon" or "it disappears if it leaves your hand" or something similar. Anything conjured/created/evoked works for anyone unless the spell says otherwise.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Belafon wrote:
Tacticslion wrote:
can someone else wield your divine trident?

Why I dislike d20pfsrd: it's really hard to check against the books sometimes because they have to rename everything that uses Paizo's IP. "Divine trident" is Gozreh's Trident.

Anyway the answer is: yes, someone else can use the Trident. There are plenty of spells (mainly personal range) that have limitations of "only you can use this weapon" or "it disappears if it leaves your hand" or something similar. Anything conjured/created/evoked works for anyone unless the spell says otherwise.

Which means this could be extremely useful to put into someone else's space! Another reason to want larger ranges, even if it seems impossible.

I don't like d20pfsrd's renaming of things, but I assert that it is reasonable that they do so, considering their inability to do otherwise. I find it far, far too useful, even compared to AoN at times, to state that I dislike it. There are several RAW elements I can find at d20pfsrd that I simply can't at AoN, and it emphasize why both are great and useful together.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Ryze Kuja wrote:

This might work? You could cast the Produce Flame spell and give it to your familiar, and then let the familiar fly off and cast it later.

Familiar Spell wrote:

Familiar Spell (Metamagic)

You can imbue your familiar with a spell.

Prerequisites: Spellcaster with familiar class feature.

Benefit: You can transfer a prepared spell to your familiar, allowing the familiar to cast that spell at a later time. Variables that rely on caster level function according to your caster level, not your familiar’s Hit Dice, though your familiar’s Intelligence may influence how precisely it can follow your instructions on how to use these spells.

Your familiar must be able to speak to cast spells with a verbal component (the ability to speak with its master or creatures of its kind is insufficient). Your familiar must be carrying any material or focus components necessary, unless the materials cost less than 1 gp and the spell is prepared with Eschew Materials. Attack rolls use your familiar’s ability scores. A familiar spell counts against the number of spells you may prepare for as long as your familiar retains the spell. Once your familiar casts a retained spell, you can prepare a new spell in that slot the next time you prepare spells.

A familiar spell uses up a spell slot 3 levels higher than the spell’s actual level. Your familiar can store a number of spell levels (including this modifier) equal to your caster level, but no spell’s adjusted level can exceed half your caster level.

Special: If you are a spontaneous caster, you must select a specific spell with which to imbue your familiar; you cannot imbue your familiar with an open spell slot.

I'd say that makes sense, depending on the spell, yeah. That's at least one way!


1 person marked this as a favorite.

So! A weird option (that doesn't directly increase the range) I've heard is: spell storing of {range: 0 ft.} spell plus summon <something> to move over that way before activation.

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Rules Questions / Is there a way to increase a spell with a range of 0 ft.? All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.
Recent threads in Rules Questions