Thaumaturge's Amulet and Champion's Reaction

[Zakapouik]

Hello,

Since i discover the Neutral Evil champion, i found that his reaction was very poor compare to Good Champion.
Indeed, Good Champion Reaction give 2+level resistance to ALL damage to an ally once per round to speak simply
The Neutral Evil one give 2 + half level NOT rounded up to the triggering damage (not all damage) to himself once per round

And Thaumaturge come in with his amulet giving what ?
2 + level resistance to all damage for himself OR allies once per round ??!?

Excuse me but this seems really odd to me. If i want to play a neutral evil champion for his tankyness, it's better to just take Thaumaturge with Sentinel dedication no ?

Neutral Evil Champion who is already weak for me compare to others Champions feel weaker with this playtest

I think the Thaumaturge reaction does not need to be this powerfull (and the NE champion's one need to be better but i think it's not essential)

[QuidEst]

Well, there's a very big difference: the amulet only works against one target, and takes at minimum one action to set up, often two. That is a restriction on par with a good champion's "only works on other people", and in exchange for self-targeting, it doesn't have any other rider. Should Paladin block more damage to an ally than Thaumaturge and get a free strike? That'd make Paladin almost better than two implements at once.

Yeah, NE Champion has a weak reaction. This shouldn't be balanced against the weakest option.

[Zakapouik]

I don't think Paladin should block more, for me they are alreay one of the most powerfull class in the game.
I know Amulet work only on one target and need to be set up the first turn but you'll use almost every turn, like the champion's one. Just in a slightly less versatile way, i agree.

I still believe that it's a bit too powerfull, but we will see in the future

[YuriP]

Usually the Evil tankers are evil! Maybe they care less about protect themselves and prefer to harm the others! kkk

But the balance behind is that you not only protect yourself (something that a good champion cannot do) but also uses your reaction to strike back and gain a extra damage that keeps until the end of your next turn.

Maybe not appear too much balanced but is a self protection with a counter attack that can combo with shield block (if your have extra reaction to block) and resistances.

The Thaumaturge amulet also requires one hand so cannot normally be used with a shield (unless your use shield in other hand but you still needs an additional reaction to block).

[Zakapouik]

It have a range to trigger, the same as others (15feet) and you not strike back, like the paladin, you just buff a little your damage for the next round.

But evils are evil, so don't need to be too strong.

For refocus on the Thaumaturge, it's true it need one hand, i think with your arguments that he can be balance now
Strong for sure, but probably not overpower

[YuriP]

Sorry I didn't notice the trigger range when I read it in AoN.

[HumbleGamer]

The champion of good ( regardless his cause ) works around his reaction and his great armor class.

The enemy is going to decide whether to attack a champion or another character.

If he attacks the former, he's going to crit way less times and miss more more strikes.

On the otherhand, if he attacks the champion ally, he's going to suffer a DR and a side effect ( a strike, if the champion is a paladin, or, if the enemy is extremely unlucky and the champion is a redeemer, enfeebled 2 or deciding not to deal damage ).

- A thaumaturge has 8hp/lvl rather than 10hp/lvl.
- It only hits master armor proficiency
- It hits master armor proficiency by lvl 19 rather than lvl 17 ( like a fighter or magus )
- No juggernaut class feat, but improved resolve ( This is going to hurt ).
- He has to declare a target for his reaction ( on his turn ).
- He has to always get a free hand to use his implement's empowerment ( so, I didn't read it in details, he's be forbidden from using a shield, unless "shield + free hand". Am I right? )

Don't get me wrong, given a fight against a couple of enemies, it would be definitely good to have a reaction to reduce the incoming damage on either himself and an ally... but that's it... given the class itself it doesn't seem that "op".

Champion of Evil ( the desacrator NE ) has a nice reaction.

Being able to reduce the damage is excellent when combined to a shield block ( a champion is going to have an extra use by lvl 8 ).

It would also get a "permanent" little DR against the target of his reaction even since lvl 1, which is great, and by lvl 11 he's be able to also debuff the enemies giving them -1 hit ).

It's really a sturdy tank, and personally I like it very much.

It has to be noticed that since the evil tennets/causes have unlimited freedom compared to the good ones, their skills are less powerful. I have difficult calling it damage since it involves "alignment" and RP stuff, but I guess that's for.

[Kelseus]

The real turn on this is that the target has to be subject to your Esoteric Antithesis. The Champion gets to block the first swing that comes in (plus their path specific rider). The Thaumaturge has to pick his target in advance. What if the target misses that round? What if they don't attack, or hit someone more than 15 feet away?

Is this reaction good? Yes. But it is severely limited compared to the Champion one.