Hello! This is my first post on the Paizo forums, so I'll give a bit of an introduction.
I go by Jade! I've been playing Tabletop RPG's for a few years now, and after being introduced to fantasy RPG's by good ol' DND 5e, I've branched out and tried a few other systems. Pathfinder has stuck as one of my favorites due to the sheer wealth of options and meaningful mechanics.
Over the past few weeks, I've been reading through the Medium class, and I love it! I believe I've gotten a good understanding of how it works, what's good and what isn't, but I know very little about how the class interacts with the rest of the game. I'm still learning about feats, skills, and practical application of most of the tools available to me, so I wanted to ask you all how you would personally play the Medium? What sort of story, what sort of personality, and what sort of abilities would you build around the class' framework?
The character I've made is an Azata Blooded Heavenborn Aasimar. Their story is that they were born in Elysyum, and lived their life among the exalted souls of powerful heroes. Yearning to be a hero as great as those they saw every day, they left and went to the material plane to prove themselves. However, they're a runt. With only 7 strength, they're frail and weak, unable to fight. So, they channel the spirits of the same legends they wish to emulate, glad to allow these spirits to influence them and show them how to be a hero.
At level 3, I had to sacrifice my feats on Weapon Finesse and Slashing Grace with a scimitar, and I plan on investing into Sarenrae's divine fighting style and other scimitar-centric abilities.
I play in a West-March game, so I need to fill a different role every session. When I need to fill a combat combat, I use the Champion for its combat benefits. When the group needs a healer, I pick Hierophant. Usually, however, I pick Marshall and use my Spirit Surge on my allies as much as possible. My only regret is that I can't use feats to improve my performance with non-combat spirits because using a dex weapon requires so much investment. I still need weapon focus and other similar feats.
I look forward to hearing about the interesting ways you all use this class, and unique ways you've discovered to use their abilities!
Howdy, welcome to the forums!
Personally, Mediums make a very strong Fighter+ with the Champion spirit and Spirit Focus. I spent most of my time in Champion mode unless I needed some condition removal or a specific spell. Marshal feels kind of weak to me. Could definitely use a houserule or buff since a Bard is just kinda...better for the same purposes. There's also some really strong niche benefits from picking up Scribe Scroll for your Hierophant or Archmage spirits.
The most recent game I played a Medium in was an Elder Scrolls inspired game where I was a Dunmer haunted by the spirits of his ancestors.
There's a really nasty set of feat combos to really bring the SMASH into a 2handed build. Power Attack -> Intimidating Prowess ->Cornugon Smash -> Hateful.
Howdy, welcome to the forums!
Personally, Mediums make a very strong Fighter+ with the Champion spirit and Spirit Focus. I spent most of my time in Champion mode unless I needed some condition removal or a specific spell. Marshal feels kind of weak to me. Could definitely use a houserule or buff since a Bard is just kinda...better for the same purposes. There's also some really strong niche benefits from picking up Scribe Scroll for your Hierophant or Archmage spirits.
The most recent game I played a Medium in was an Elder Scrolls inspired game where I was a Dunmer haunted by the spirits of his ancestors.
There's a really nasty set of feat combos to really bring the SMASH into a 2handed build. Power Attack -> Intimidating Prowess ->Cornugon Smash -> Hateful.
It's always fun to tie things in with the world lore. I'm surprised that high strength is one of the better ways to play the class! Thematically, a psychic letting themselves be possessed in order to use powers didn't scream "Frontline Warrior" to me, but when you're letting Conan The Barbarian copilot your body for a day, I suppose you would make a pretty competent strongman!
(Also, I just noticed that I wrote "Fill a Combat Combat". Not sure what sort of mini aneurysm I was having there, but I meant to say "Fill the role of Melee DPS")
I've been told that Marshall can be very good! So far I've enjoyed using it, and with Taboo's, I can throw out four d6's as immediate actions before incurring penalties, and give everyone the perfect passive bonus for them at the start of the day.
The only legend I've seen people say is completely useless is the Guardian, and apparently that's more an issue of Defense being a mediocre investment in Pathfinder as a whole. Reading it, I do see how it might be sub par, considering it gives you the defense required to frontline, but then... nothing to do once you get there.
I do like, however, that the variety of tools that the spirits provide encourage you to have toys you bring along for each spirit, like how you would keep a special exotic weapon to use when you decide to be a Champion, and a set of metamagic rods for when you're an Archmage or a Hierophant! It's not optimal at all, but it's fun!
Welcome, Jade!
The Medium is certainly an interesting class, and you seem to have a decent grasp of how to harness its versatility.
I have only personally used Medium for dips. One level dip into Medium on a Weapon Master Fighter is a go-to, for me. Pick up the Spirit Focus feat, and throw Spirit Bonded on my Mithral Breastplate... goes VERY well with Weapon Training and the Gloves of Dueling.
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Welcome, Jade!
The Medium is certainly an interesting class, and you seem to have a decent grasp of how to harness its versatility.
I have only personally used Medium for dips. One level dip into Medium on a Weapon Master Fighter is a go-to, for me. Pick up the Spirit Focus feat, and throw Spirit Bonded on my Mithral Breastplate... goes VERY well with Weapon Training and the Gloves of Dueling.
That's a pretty savage dip. Nice.
For the low low cost of 1 feat, 1 level, and a cheap magic armor you get +3 to ATK, +5 to DMG, +3 to Fort Saves, Strength checks, +2 to Will Saves, and a free exotic weapon proficiency.
That's awesome.
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I don't think going pure medium is a very good option, because its main shtick of switching roles each day is just not needed in most parties.
That said, a two-level dip of medium with the marshal spirit is excellent on any support character. The whole party gets a permanent +2 to damage, and a couple of times per day you can retroactively add +1d6+1 to anyone's attack roll or saving throw, as a free action. Then spend the rest of your levels on, oh say Bard instead.
Medium takes longer to get better, but by level 8 you can have Spirit Bonded armor and spirit Focus (Marshal) to give a +5 to Atk/Dmg or saves. Bards take much longer to do that Atk/Dmg and can’t do the same for all saves.
Good Hope is +2 to all of those at once for a very long duration and don't take up your actions. Inspire Courage is +2 to Atk/Dmg as well and don't take up your actions.
It's not a competition between Bards and Mediums, their differences are irrelevant in this thread.
I would like to explore a lot of the occult classes in greater depth. I am sure Medium has archetypes that trade away some of the things I am less interested in... but as it stands in its vanilla form, I can't see sticking it out past a dip for most characters. I have yet to come up with a character concept dependant upon channeling spirits.
Conceptually, I like it. It seems like it could be cool. If you had an idea of how to play it up, I bet there are plenty of rich roleplaying opportunities to be had... I just am not that guy. My creativity seems to stall when it comes to channeling spirits. Maybe I haven't read the right manga or watched the right cartoons, but as a driving force behind a 1-20 character... I have nothing.
Out of all the occult classes, Mesmerist is the only one that I have natually been able to build characters with. It's features seem to flow in a rhythm I can jive to... its core concepts simple enough to incorporate into a chaacter without having to come up with some bizzare, elaborate backstory about ghosts and spirits and being freaking haunted.
I have been trying, too. Started messing around with the Bloodrager and Rogue archetypes that dip into the occult spirit $#!+... both are very cool in their own right, even better gestalted together. Lol. But, again, it is hard for me to pick spirits that make sense in the sense that I would enjoy, or even was capable of, roleplaying a character using these features. I thought, maybe, I could get into it using a chassis I am more familiar with, such as Bloodrager or Rogue, but my creativity still stalls when it comes to channeling spirits... even on a chassis I understand.
It's not a competition between Bards and Mediums, their differences are irrelevant in this thread.
I dunno, when it comes to someone dedicating themselves to a role like Marshal, Bard makes a lot of sense to me to bring up. It's a character concept that doesn't really solidify until 6th and isn't particularly useful until 11th. Even then, you're not full attacking, moving or attacking a lot of the time. They also can't really benefit from their own buffs which seems kludgy as heck.
Spirit Surge is only useable like 5 times a day.
Conceptually I really do like the Medium, but Marshal and Guardian are basically unplayable for me. I think rolling with static spirits and making up identities and personality quirks for your Medium while they're being possessed by them is super fun.
I've dabbled with the Medium a bit but it held fairly little interest to me for a good bit of time. I tend to NOT like putting my characters at risk of losing control of themselves.
That said, I did use a dip into the Medium to set up some interesting backstory for a Summoner I built. Specifically the Reanimated Medium archetype. I thought it was sort of cool that someone's spirit could simply re-possess their own body. I used that to set the stage for the character to project themselves outwards as an Eidolon (or spiritualist if you want to do that), and allow an ally spirit spirit to occupy your now vacant body to operate it while YOU get the job done.
I've dabbled with the Medium a bit but it held fairly little interest to me for a good bit of time. I tend to NOT like putting my characters at risk of losing control of themselves.
That said, I did use a dip into the Medium to set up some interesting backstory for a Summoner I built. Specifically the Reanimated Medium archetype. I thought it was sort of cool that someone's spirit could simply re-possess their own body. I used that to set the stage for the character to project themselves outwards as an Eidolon (or spiritualist if you want to do that), and allow an ally spirit spirit to occupy your now vacant body to operate it while YOU get the job done.
I LOVE that idea! And since you can have your eidolon participate in the seance, you can go Marshall have them benefit from the +2 damage from the champion seance boon and also use the spirit surges on your eidolon. That sounds like a ton of fun!
I LOVE that idea! And since you can have your eidolon participate in the seance, you can go Marshall have them benefit from the +2 damage from the champion seance boon and also use the spirit surges on your eidolon. That sounds like a ton of fun!
Glad you like the idea. I used the Reanimated Medium + the Spirit Summoner archetype to get access the Channel Energy via the Life spirit. That way, the 'possessed' body could take up a support role while it was on auto-pilot. Getting Protective Luck and Chant hexes also fit within the scope of the character's role. I also grabbed the VMC option for the Paladin, though not many people want to give up that many feats. I chose the Agathion subtype for the Eidolon for the Lay on Hands.
The build was quite sturdy and useful.
In a Wrath of the Righteous game, I built a Human Spirit Dancer VMC Bard. It was setup to throw out a silly number of buffs to the party in a single round, and tacking on a few Mythic levels ratcheted that up to the heavens. Due to party comp and play style, I was built to fill in as the party Face, Tank, secondary DPS, and Skill Monkey when needed; having the flexibility to shift on the fly was a nifty trick.