The Community Is Hurting


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The Exchange

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Scavion wrote:
We're all still part of the same community.

Very much this. And no matter how much I wished that we could just focus on an awesome setting and awesome adventures written by awesome people (because the rest doesn't really relate to me), I am only one tiny part of this community, and yes, if another part hurts, I get to feel it eventually.

And even if that wasn't true? I can still try and be empathetic towards people that have done nothing wrong and still are getting marginalized by (mostly) privileged people like me.


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TriOmegaZero wrote:
410 here.

397 here. Probably a couple dozen are single scenarios.


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I have long abandoned my account for paizo.com and do not have my old login information. I have been watching this unfold.

I was compelled to go through the process to make this post about the community and the need for Paizo to commit to a robust plan for customer service relations and also the need for community management to retain a healthy environment for its games and products.

Here are the facts:

- The position of a "Community Manager" is a very real full time position recognized and in existence in many companies in the field of entertainment. It requires a set of skills specific to the role.
- Only two full time community-focused employees have existed at Paizo. One left in 2016, one changed positions in 2017.
- The part time community manager ("part time" because Customer Service and Community Management are different roles) has separated from the company in the last two weeks.
- Paizo has intermingled the profession of Community Manager with Customer Service, which conflates both sets of skills, and means that the community does not receive the support and expertise that a Community Manager provides.
- Paizo itself is almost 20 years old.

It is a disservice to the community and to the person who now has the role of Director of Community for Paizo, the company, to not recognize that Community Management is a Real Position that requires a set of skills and experience beyond: Customer Service, Organized Play, Game Development, or Website Expertise.

It is a disservice to the company itself to continue to run in this way at nearly 20 years of operation. The foundation needs work in order to retain a healthy and engaged community. This is what customers and employees and former employees are requesting and deserve.

Resolving these issues can be a starting point to address the pattern of intended or unintended wrong-doing by management and ultimately display the value of human beings within the company culture. This is the floor of work to be done.

Grand Lodge

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LoL. Considering they only recently added an HR rep to their staff (after nearly two decades) and that person is also what, the director of accounting (or some such) why would it surprise anyone that they conflate the community manager with the CS manager?!?


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They’ve had an HR person before. It’s been vacant recently.


TwilightKnight wrote:
LoL. Considering they only recently added an HR rep to their staff (after nearly two decades) and that person is also what, the director of accounting (or some such) why would it surprise anyone that they conflate the community manager with the CS manager?!?

That has usually been how they do it as far as community and customer service.

Grand Lodge

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Just because its usual, does not mean it is a good idea


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That is true! Though I didn't say it was a good idea.

I just build things.

The Exchange

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Majuba wrote:
TriOmegaZero wrote:
410 here.
397 here. Probably a couple dozen are single scenarios.

Almost at TOZ levels. 408 for me...

Silver Crusade

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Pathfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

I even said that I would love her to put out a blog post introducing herself and her new position. Not all of us do Pathfinder or Starfinder Society, so not all of us know who she is. I'd like to get to know her better, I'd like to have a sense of community with her. I knew Sara and Diego pretty well because they interacted with us outside of moderating. I'd like to be able to say that about Tonya too. The people are what make the company for me, the Wes Schneider and James Jacobs AMA threads were highlights of my early years in the fandom (the James one still is). I want to know the people who help make my favorite setting possible, and that includes Tonya.


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Howdy Tholok! Welcome to the forum, very interesting moment to join right at this particular moment in time to share your thoughts. I encourage you to join some of the discussions in the various threads about the game systems we enjoy.

Perhaps when you participate in the community we are discussing, you'll understand why some folks take the word of people whom we have been given no cause to distrust and great cause to trust at face value.


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I admit I struggle with this discussion, and an don’t have a clear “side” on this one.

Very much in favor of diversity, equality and inclusion both in my own direct environment and more broadly (but then that is more mainstream in the Netherlands vs. US). And do think there should be no difference made between cis and trans men or women.

However simultaneously the information (to me) seems too limited to hold up (yeah I know it isn’t a court of law, but without knowing individuals those principles to me make sense), and being the underdog doesn’t make someone “right” automatically. Also I admit I find the tendency to side with the own group (while more understandable for marginalized groups) very disconcerting, as it is what leads to many of the issues we observe in society. I prefer objectiveness and abhor the “court of public opinion”, so I prefer to withhold judgement. If there is a clear issue (more proven), and the company does indeed not act it could impact my willingness to buy but we are not there yet (by my standards).

I do think the issues about liveable wage appear far more widely supported, but then I admit it fits my reservations about the US……. and to me is more a feature of the US being very right wing (yeah democrats included) and stuck at least a century in the past socio-economically and less a Paizo issue.

And I expect there might be more people like me, who are generally supportive of LHBTIQ+ rights and the community, don’t blindly support Paizo blindly, but still don’t feel like judging paizo yet.


The point wasnt "dont reply to anyone".

The point was "dont reply to something you know is going to be deleted because you make it twice as hard to remove".

Barring genuine education, the same goes for telling people youve flagged their post or that its going to be moderated once the staff are online or whatever.

If we flag something for moderator attention the least we can do is to make it easy for them to remove the problematic comments.

Sovereign Court Director of Community

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Removed the discussion on quoted posts, as well as a few posts back and forth questioning the aims behind the original post and the resulting replies. It isn't the job of the community to question a person's feelings.

Sovereign Court Director of Community

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Cori Marie wrote:
I even said that I would love her to put out a blog post introducing herself and her new position. Not all of us do Pathfinder or Starfinder Society, so not all of us know who she is. I'd like to get to know her better, I'd like to have a sense of community with her. I knew Sara and Diego pretty well because they interacted with us outside of moderating. I'd like to be able to say that about Tonya too. The people are what make the company for me, the Wes Schneider and James Jacobs AMA threads were highlights of my early years in the fandom (the James one still is). I want to know the people who help make my favorite setting possible, and that includes Tonya.

I'd love for the chance to get to know people! To give the community time to process the information and their feelings, I stayed in the background, help with some of the moderation but not speaking up. I was also one of the 12 day-in-a-row employees, as I'm now responsible for Paizo's convention presence. Long hours and extended work weeks are just the nature of Gen Con and are planned, but still, lead to being fried at the end of it. I did get comp time and will be taking it in a couple of weeks to celebrate my birthday.

As for an intro blog. Doing them for individual employees is a bit of a hit or miss. The Org Play team adds in bits about changes on their team into the monthly updates, but that is the most regular planned item we have. We sometimes do press releases, depending on the position hired. There isn't anything consistent, which is something that I'd like to see change. Especially if the community would like to read them.

A short bit about me - My partner is retired military (24 years) and I've lived around the world. I joined Paizo almost 6 years ago (Sept 30, so almost to my anniversary) after being a PFS player and venture-officer. My gamer life started in high school when friends introduced me to Advanced D&D Second Edition. While Pathfinder is my primary system, and I participate in Starfinder Society when I'm at conventions, my other love is FASA's Earthdawn. The longest campaign(s) I've been a part of ran for 2ish years, as a player in Kingmaker and GM for Rise of the Runelords. The military lifestyle had us changing out gaming groups every 3ish years.


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Gday Tonya, curious! Do you have any plans or Direction as the new Community Director, what about things we should look forward to?

Also.. what does a Community Director do in your eyes?


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@Tonya Woldridge:

Pleased to meet you (my nephew -- Animism -- says 'Hi', too).

Thank you for your hard work, especially in moderating.

Carry on,

--C.

Silver Crusade

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Pathfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Tonya Woldridge wrote:
Cori Marie wrote:
I even said that I would love her to put out a blog post introducing herself and her new position. Not all of us do Pathfinder or Starfinder Society, so not all of us know who she is. I'd like to get to know her better, I'd like to have a sense of community with her. I knew Sara and Diego pretty well because they interacted with us outside of moderating. I'd like to be able to say that about Tonya too. The people are what make the company for me, the Wes Schneider and James Jacobs AMA threads were highlights of my early years in the fandom (the James one still is). I want to know the people who help make my favorite setting possible, and that includes Tonya.

I'd love for the chance to get to know people! To give the community time to process the information and their feelings, I stayed in the background, help with some of the moderation but not speaking up. I was also one of the 12 day-in-a-row employees, as I'm now responsible for Paizo's convention presence. Long hours and extended work weeks are just the nature of Gen Con and are planned, but still, lead to being fried at the end of it. I did get comp time and will be taking it in a couple of weeks to celebrate my birthday.

As for an intro blog. Doing them for individual employees is a bit of a hit or miss. The Org Play team adds in bits about changes on their team into the monthly updates, but that is the most regular planned item we have. We sometimes do press releases, depending on the position hired. There isn't anything consistent, which is something that I'd like to see change. Especially if the community would like to read them.

A short bit about me - My partner is retired military (24 years) and I've lived around the world. I joined Paizo almost 6 years ago (Sept 30, so almost to my anniversary) after being a PFS player and venture-officer. My gamer life started in high school when friends introduced me to Advanced D&D Second Edition. While Pathfinder is my primary system, and I participate in Starfinder...

Thanks for the response! I look forward to getting to know you better, and hope the next few weeks are a little less packed than the previous few. I hope you have fun plans to celebrate your birthday.

I know that back in the day I always enjoyed the introduction posts that used to be done (Crystal Frasier's "They appreciate my mastery of fire" and "They still appreciate my mastery of fire" are the two that stand out the most in my head), so I'd love to see them return. They're a good way for the community to learn who the staff are, and what makes the people that power our favorite game systems.


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Tonya Woldridge wrote:
Cori Marie wrote:
I even said that I would love her to put out a blog post introducing herself and her new position. Not all of us do Pathfinder or Starfinder Society, so not all of us know who she is. I'd like to get to know her better, I'd like to have a sense of community with her. I knew Sara and Diego pretty well because they interacted with us outside of moderating. I'd like to be able to say that about Tonya too. The people are what make the company for me, the Wes Schneider and James Jacobs AMA threads were highlights of my early years in the fandom (the James one still is). I want to know the people who help make my favorite setting possible, and that includes Tonya.

I'd love for the chance to get to know people! To give the community time to process the information and their feelings, I stayed in the background, help with some of the moderation but not speaking up. I was also one of the 12 day-in-a-row employees, as I'm now responsible for Paizo's convention presence. Long hours and extended work weeks are just the nature of Gen Con and are planned, but still, lead to being fried at the end of it. I did get comp time and will be taking it in a couple of weeks to celebrate my birthday.

As for an intro blog. Doing them for individual employees is a bit of a hit or miss. The Org Play team adds in bits about changes on their team into the monthly updates, but that is the most regular planned item we have. We sometimes do press releases, depending on the position hired. There isn't anything consistent, which is something that I'd like to see change. Especially if the community would like to read them.

A short bit about me - My partner is retired military (24 years) and I've lived around the world. I joined Paizo almost 6 years ago (Sept 30, so almost to my anniversary) after being a PFS player and venture-officer. My gamer life started in high school when friends introduced me to Advanced D&D Second Edition. While Pathfinder is my primary system, and I participate in Starfinder...

What makes you better for the job then Sara Marie? Why should we trust you under these circumstances.

I'm not trying to sound combative I genuinely want to know.

Sovereign Court Director of Community

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The Inheritor wrote:

Gday Tonya, curious! Do you have any plans or Direction as the new Community Director, what about things we should look forward to?

Also.. what does a Community Director do in your eyes?

Right now, my plans are around settling in, getting the lay of the land for the communities other than Org Play (getting to know you all :) ), and supporting the CS team. Since the first step is understanding the different groups and what they need, I'm making lots of Diplomacy (gather information)/Society rolls.

One of the big tasks I've been given is to look at our convention presence. As we are hoping to have an in-person PaizoCon this year, but have been digital the past two, there are lots of back plan things we've got to decide.

For me, a community director is a supporter who builds bridges/links between groups, helps others get the tools/resources they need, fills communication gaps, and strengthens the whole.

Sovereign Court Director of Community

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captain yesterday wrote:

What makes you better for the job then Sara Marie? Why should we trust you under these circumstances.

I'm not trying to sound combative I genuinely want to know.

You need to know me to trust me and that won't happen overnight. I'm not asking for instant approval. I'm asking for a chance.

Not claiming to be better. I've got my own set of experiences and training that I will bring to the job that is different than Sara Maries. Not putting a value on either of us.


Tonya Woldridge wrote:
The Inheritor wrote:

Gday Tonya, curious! Do you have any plans or Direction as the new Community Director, what about things we should look forward to?

Also.. what does a Community Director do in your eyes?

Right now, my plans are around settling in, getting the lay of the land for the communities other than Org Play (getting to know you all :) ), and supporting the CS team. Since the first step is understanding the different groups and what they need, I'm making lots of Diplomacy (gather information)/Society rolls.

One of the big tasks I've been given is to look at our convention presence. As we are hoping to have an in-person PaizoCon this year, but have been digital the past two, there are lots of back plan things we've got to decide.

For me, a community director is a supporter who builds bridges/links between groups, helps others get the tools/resources they need, fills communication gaps, and strengthens the whole.

Can you further clarify what you mean by different groups?

Sovereign Court Director of Community

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Cori Marie wrote:

Thanks for the response! I look forward to getting to know you better, and hope the next few weeks are a little less packed than the previous few. I hope you have fun plans to celebrate your birthday.

I know that back in the day I always enjoyed the introduction posts that used to be done (Crystal Frasier's "They appreciate my mastery of fire" and "They still appreciate my mastery of fire" are the two that stand out the most in my head), so I'd love to see them return. They're a good way for the community to learn who the staff are, and what makes the people that power our favorite game systems.

They should be a bit more relaxed. No conventions for at least a month! As for birthday plans, nothing fancy. Going to spend the days off getting the garden ready for winter, sorting out some old campaign notes, and finishing up some sewing projects. Plus dinner at Fogo de Chao!

One of the plans going forward is a discussion on how we handle blogs, so I'll take your feedback to the meeting! Thank you for sharing :)


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Happy upcoming anniversary! You're getting lots of difficult questions, so here's hopefully a less high-stakes one to balance things out a bit: which was your favorite to run of the RotRL installments?

Sovereign Court Director of Community

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The Inheritor wrote:
Tonya Woldridge wrote:
The Inheritor wrote:

Gday Tonya, curious! Do you have any plans or Direction as the new Community Director, what about things we should look forward to?

Also.. what does a Community Director do in your eyes?

Right now, my plans are around settling in, getting the lay of the land for the communities other than Org Play (getting to know you all :) ), and supporting the CS team. Since the first step is understanding the different groups and what they need, I'm making lots of Diplomacy (gather information)/Society rolls.

One of the big tasks I've been given is to look at our convention presence. As we are hoping to have an in-person PaizoCon this year, but have been digital the past two, there are lots of back plan things we've got to decide.

For me, a community director is a supporter who builds bridges/links between groups, helps others get the tools/resources they need, fills communication gaps, and strengthens the whole.

Can you further clarify what you mean by different groups?

Well, we've got the OP players, venture-officers, the infrequent convention attendees, VTT GM/players, the different communities on Reddit/Facebook, employees, streamers, freelancers, first edition GMs/players, second edition GMs/players, Starfinders. Some of those have dedicated staffers working with them already - Aaron with the streamers, the Editorial staff for the freelancers, Alex for the venture-officers/Org Play players. But others don't, so that is kinda where I'm starting from.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Are you playing any ongoing campaigns right now?

Dark Archive

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Tonya Woldridge wrote:
To give the community time to process the information and their feelings, I stayed in the background, help with some of the moderation but not speaking up.

I think, that perhaps what the community really needed was not time to process, but answers, or quite reasonably lacking those so quickly after Gen Con at the very least someone in the appropriate position to actually speak up and say, "You are heard. We're deeply concerned. We're investigating. This isn't who we want to be." or to answer any questions and comments that were directed at them.

Speaking up in moments of community crisis seems like it would literally be the job for the Director of Community, instead we got "we cleaned the carpets!" from Jeff (and some far more serious and heartfelt comments from Aaron and others). Many of us have worked long periods under a lot of stress, so I'm sure that we all feel for the tiredness and pressure you're under, but surely, surely you can understand how this looks, how this feels to the many different people who are all watching and listening, waiting for some response from the very person who it seems is in charge of interacting with us all.

Yet still, there's little to no actual response relating to the actual issues bought to light, to any efforts Paizo is undertaking to investigate or even if they are. It's awesome to get to know people better, to share information about each other, but what we need right now is facts, answers, what steps are being undertaken so that we can feel the same trust we used to, so that we can feel confident in restarting subscriptions, so that we can understand this mattered and isn't just something that you all hope will blow over.

This is a huge opportunity to step up, to shine, to be the person who helps resolve this all, to figure out the way forward and to help guide Paizo into the future. Please don't waste any more time letting us 'process', get down into the trenches and begin with facts and answers right now, that's how you start healing the breach.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

I will say that Aaron has been really good about the "You are heard." portion of this, but also that part of that goes back to what Tonya said about needing to bring different parts of the community together a bit more, since Aaron primarily has those kinds of interactions with streamers and content producers, and to a lesser extent here on the forums.


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The lack of any comment on the transphobia allegations from a company whose defining public trait is a commitment to inclusivity is... pretty awful, I'm not gonna lie. It's flipped me from a very loud fan to someone who isn't comfortable purchasing product anymore, and I hope it's not long before that's commented on (and followed through with tangible action) by folks high up at the company.

It feels worse the longer it goes unaddressed.

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