
| IluzryMage | 
So this will probably be a really quick question but I just wanted to like triple sanity check myself on the feat Versatile Spontaneity.
Prerequisite(s): Int 13 or Wis 13 (see Special), ability to spontaneously cast 2nd-level spells.
Benefit: When you regain spell slots at the start of the day, you may opt to prepare one spell you don’t know in place of a daily spell slot 1 level higher than the prepared spell’s level. To do so, you must have access to the selected spell on a scroll or in a spellbook, and the spell must be on your spell list (even if it is not one of your spells known). This process takes 10 minutes per spell level of the selected spell.
You can cast the selected spell a single time, expending the spell slot as though it were a known spell being cast by you. Preparing a spell in this manner expends a scroll but not a spellbook. A spell prepared in this way is considered its actual level rather than the level of the spell slot expended. You can apply metamagic feats to the spell as normal, as long as the spell’s actual level plus the increases from metamagic feats is 1 level lower than the highest-level spell you can cast. For example, a 12th-level sorcerer with this feat, a scroll of fireball, and the Empower Spell metamagic feat could prepare an empowered fireball spell in her 6th-level spell slot.
So just to be clear, is this:
Something you can do once per day (i.e. you can prepare a single spell into a single slot and thats it.)
OR
Something you can use more than once (i.e. when you regain spells, you can decide to put one spell into one spell slot, it takes this much time, but there is no limit to how many times you can do this per day, so long as you get it all done while you regain spells)
I only ask because I don't know which way to rule it? Usually i'd go with the more restrictive ruling, but usually items that only allow you to pull this thing once per day will specifically say "once per day"

| TheKillerCorgi | 
 
	
 
                
                
              
            
            Prerequisite(s): Int 13 or Wis 13 (see Special), ability to spontaneously cast 2nd-level spells.
Benefit: When you regain spell slots at the start of the day, you may opt to prepare one spell you don’t know in place of a daily spell slot 1 level higher than the prepared spell’s level. To do so, you must have access to the selected spell on a scroll or in a spellbook, and the spell must be on your spell list (even if it is not one of your spells known). This process takes 10 minutes per spell level of the selected spell.
Note that it doesn't even say "a spell" but specifically "one spell". And given that it always refers to the prepared spell as singular, it's clearly once per day.

| IluzryMage | 
paizo wrote:Note that it doesn't even say "a spell" but specifically "one spell". And given that it always refers to the prepared spell as singular, it's clearly once per day.Prerequisite(s): Int 13 or Wis 13 (see Special), ability to spontaneously cast 2nd-level spells.
Benefit: When you regain spell slots at the start of the day, you may opt to prepare one spell you don’t know in place of a daily spell slot 1 level higher than the prepared spell’s level. To do so, you must have access to the selected spell on a scroll or in a spellbook, and the spell must be on your spell list (even if it is not one of your spells known). This process takes 10 minutes per spell level of the selected spell.
Hi, so reason I'm confused is that it doesn't say you CAN't do this more than once. You can prepare one spell into a daily slot and every other time its refering to spells in singular, its referring to that one spell that you prep in that one slot, basically just going through the process of how you do it for one spell.
the one spell thing could be a way of just specifying that you cant have one spell in multiple slots, just so you don't get confused with the arcanist or something.
Do we have an FAQ or some other examples?

|  Belafon | 
 
	
 
                
                
              
            
            Hi, so reason I'm confused is that it doesn't say you CAN't do this more than once. You can prepare one spell into a daily slot and every other time its refering to spells in singular, its referring to that one spell that you prep in that one slot, basically just going through the process of how you do it for one spell.
the one spell thing could be a way of just specifying that you cant have one spell in multiple slots, just so you don't get confused with the arcanist or something.
Do we have an FAQ or some other examples?
To give just one out of literally hundreds of examples:
A sorcerer must pick one bloodline upon taking her first level of sorcerer.
It says the sorcerer must pick one bloodline, but it doesn't say she can't pick two, three, or seven bloodlines.
One is One.

| IluzryMage | 
Neat. still really really good i think. thanks team
....now ENTIRELY DIFFERENT QUESTION
Benefit: Select one class for which you prepare spells of 3rd level or higher. Once you select a class, it can’t be changed. When you prepare spells for that class, you can leave one spell slot open as a special slot. The slot must be at least 2 levels lower than the highest-level spell you can cast. You can then prepare a spell in this special open slot as a standard action instead of it taking 15 minutes.
Special: You can take this feat multiple times. Each time you do, you can leave an additional special slot open.
So technically we meet the pre-reqs. Could we, using this nonsense, get more than one prepared spell slot?

|  Belafon | 
 
	
 
                
                
              
            
            ....now ENTIRELY DIFFERENT QUESTION
Brilliant Spell Preparation wrote:So technically we meet the pre-reqs. Could we, using this nonsense, get more than one prepared spell slot?Prerequisites: Int 13, ability to prepare 3rd-level spells.
Benefit: Select one class for which you prepare spells of 3rd level or higher. Once you select a class, it can’t be changed. When you prepare spells for that class, you can leave one spell slot open as a special slot. The slot must be at least 2 levels lower than the highest-level spell you can cast. You can then prepare a spell in this special open slot as a standard action instead of it taking 15 minutes.
Special: You can take this feat multiple times. Each time you do, you can leave an additional special slot open.
Assuming you have the ability to cast 4th-level spells spontaneously and the Versatile Spontaneity feat, then you do meet the prerequisites for Brilliant Spell Preparation.
However the feat wouldn't do anything for you. It lets you "prepare a spell in this special open slot as a standard action instead of it taking 15 minutes." Since you can't prepare a spell in that slot, reducing the time from 15 minutes to a standard action does nothing.
If it said "you can then prepare a spell in this special open slot as a standard action" - period - it could have been a much more convoluted debate.

| IluzryMage | 
IluzryMage wrote:....now ENTIRELY DIFFERENT QUESTION
Brilliant Spell Preparation wrote:So technically we meet the pre-reqs. Could we, using this nonsense, get more than one prepared spell slot?Prerequisites: Int 13, ability to prepare 3rd-level spells.
Benefit: Select one class for which you prepare spells of 3rd level or higher. Once you select a class, it can’t be changed. When you prepare spells for that class, you can leave one spell slot open as a special slot. The slot must be at least 2 levels lower than the highest-level spell you can cast. You can then prepare a spell in this special open slot as a standard action instead of it taking 15 minutes.
Special: You can take this feat multiple times. Each time you do, you can leave an additional special slot open.
Assuming you have the ability to cast 4th-level spells spontaneously and the Versatile Spontaneity feat, then you do meet the prerequisites for Brilliant Spell Preparation.
However the feat wouldn't do anything for you. It lets you "prepare a spell in this special open slot as a standard action instead of it taking 15 minutes." Since you can't prepare a spell in that slot, reducing the time from 15 minutes to a standard action does nothing.
If it said "you can then prepare a spell in this special open slot as a standard action" - period - it could have been a much more convoluted debate.
Well hear me out, i think it says something similiar because it basically gives you the ability to turn open slots (which you do have as a sorcerer) into these special open slots (Which are provided by the feat) that can then be prepared as a standard action (once per special slot.
So when you prepare spells (using versatile spontenaety) you have the option to turn open slots (Which are basically all of them for you except maybe the slot from the feat) into special open slots that can then be prepared as special slots.
Where is the break here?

|  Belafon | 
 
	
 
                
                
              
            
            At first I thought "OK, maybe Iluzry really is confused and looking for some explanation." But now it seems pretty clear that you are actively looking for loopholes and trying to pry cracks in the language and use the battle cry of "It doesn't say I can't!" to justify doing what you want to do.
i think it says something similiar because it basically gives you the ability to turn open slots (which you do have as a sorcerer) into these special open slots (Which are provided by the feat) that can then be prepared as a standard action (once per special slot.
So when you prepare spells (using versatile spontenaety) you have the option to turn open slots (Which are basically all of them for you except maybe the slot from the feat) into special open slots that can then be prepared as special slots.
Brilliant Spell Preparation gives you the option to leave a spell slot open and prepare a spell in that slot as a standard action instead of it taking 15 minutes. If you don't normally have the ability to prepare a spell in 15 minutes, this ability does nothing.
If I say "Between St. Louis and Kansas City you can drive your car 75 mph instead of 55 mph" you don't automatically receive a car when you are between the two cities.

| DeathlessOne | 
 
	
 
                
                
              
            
            To be specific, you can't combine these two because your ability to prepare spells as a sorcerer with the Versatile Spontaneity feat is not the same as the wizard ability. It is similar, except "This process takes 10 minutes per spell level of the selected spell."
The RAI (read as intended) MIGHT allow you to do this with a permissive DM but the RAW (read as written) is pretty clear that it takes you LONGER than 15 minutes to prepare a spell (if level 2 or higher) or exactly 10 minutes (for a 1st level spell). You don't have the same 15 minute preparation time that a wizard does for filling an empty spell slot later. You MUST fill that slot at the beginning of the day when you get your daily spell slots for the day.
Let's just say that it would work, and you could use these two feats together. You'd only be able to use the feat with the single spell slot that Versatile Spontaneity allowed you to free up. It would be of situational usefulness but I don't think it would be worth two feats. And it requires a permissive DM to bend the rules to make it work.

| IluzryMage | 
To be specific, you can't combine these two because your ability to prepare spells as a sorcerer with the Versatile Spontaneity feat is not the same as the wizard ability. It is similar, except "This process takes 10 minutes per spell level of the selected spell."
The RAI (read as intended) MIGHT allow you to do this with a permissive DM but the RAW (read as written) is pretty clear that it takes you LONGER than 15 minutes to prepare a spell (if level 2 or higher) or exactly 10 minutes (for a 1st level spell). You don't have the same 15 minute preparation time that a wizard does for filling an empty spell slot later. You MUST fill that slot at the beginning of the day when you get your daily spell slots for the day.
Let's just say that it would work, and you could use these two feats together. You'd only be able to use the feat with the single spell slot that Versatile Spontaneity allowed you to free up. It would be of situational usefulness but I don't think it would be worth two feats. And it requires a permissive DM to bend the rules to make it work.
Okay so thats entirely true okay ill take this thank you

| IluzryMage | 
At first I thought "OK, maybe Iluzry really is confused and looking for some explanation." But now it seems pretty clear that you are actively looking for loopholes and trying to pry cracks in the language and use the battle cry of "It doesn't say I can't!" to justify doing what you want to do.
Quote:i think it says something similiar because it basically gives you the ability to turn open slots (which you do have as a sorcerer) into these special open slots (Which are provided by the feat) that can then be prepared as a standard action (once per special slot.
So when you prepare spells (using versatile spontenaety) you have the option to turn open slots (Which are basically all of them for you except maybe the slot from the feat) into special open slots that can then be prepared as special slots.
Brilliant Spell Preparation gives you the option to leave a spell slot open and prepare a spell in that slot as a standard action instead of it taking 15 minutes. If you don't normally have the ability to prepare a spell in 15 minutes, this ability does nothing.
If I say "Between St. Louis and Kansas City you can drive your car 75 mph instead of 55 mph" you don't automatically receive a car when you are between the two cities.
YOU GOT ME THERE okay cool I can close the book on both of these things. Ah that saves me a lot of work, thanks everyone!!!! I am constantly trying to find loopholes but that's just because I'm writing guides so I need to know if there are any weird combinations that I've missed because sometimes it feels like being a lawyer keeping track of all of these weird interactions.
Anyway, thanks!!!

| DeathlessOne | 
 
	
 
                
                
              
            
            Oh, there are certainly ... interesting loopholes you can exploit with these two feats and another class. Specifically, the Spell Specialist Arcanist that has chosen to take the Faith Magic Arcane Discovery through their Arcane Discovery Exploit.
Don't get too crazy with it though.

| IluzryMage | 
Oh, there are certainly ... interesting loopholes you can exploit with these two feats and another class. Specifically, the Spell Specialist Arcanist that has chosen to take the Faith Magic Arcane Discovery through their Arcane Discovery Exploit.
Don't get too crazy with it though.
Can you explain this one to me? I mean i wont be writing an arcanist guide...I hope...so im curious!

| DeathlessOne | 
 
	
 
                
                
              
            
            Well, normally an Arcanist is a prepared caster. They prep their spells for the day just like a wizard, but unlike a wizard (and very much like a sorcerer) they have spell slots in which they can then cast their 'prepared' spells (rather than known spells) spontaneously. A Spell Specialist Arcanist sacrifices one of their 'spells prepared' and effectively has a 'spell known', which qualifies them as a true spontaneous caster. They can cast those spells exactly like a sorcerer does, one spell per each spell level they have access to.
The Spell Specialist Arcanist can make use of both Versatile Spontaneity and Brilliant Spell Preparation. The Quick Study Exploit does something very similar to Brilliant Spell Preparation, but requires an arcane point, a full round action and access to your spellbook. It doesn't have the restriction of the spell being lower level, but ... eh. Tradeoffs.
Choosing Faith Magic as an Arcane Discovery allows you to count as a divine spellcaster if you are looking to enter Mystic Theurge with as little level loss as possible. You'll still need at least one level in an actual divine casting class to get any real benefit from it. There is some interesting possibilities if you also pick a spontaneous casting class for your divine side, because you'll get double duty out of the Versatile Spontaneity feat.
 
	
 
     
     
     
	
 