Weirdo Swashbuckler build question

[VampByDay]

So . . . A swashbuckler's weapon just has to have the Finesse OR Agile weapon quality to benefit from precise strike right? And there's no penalty for using a shield right? So in theory a Swashbuckler could run around with a medium shield and high strength and an AGILE (but not finessable) weapon and use their strength to hit right?

Am I missing something or can I make a high strength, moderate dex swashbuckler who looks like a warrior, but instead of AoO they get opportune parry/riposte?

[Schreckstoff]

You can but the problem is that you're capped at 16 starting strength with the swashbuckler.
Most encounters are balanced around characters having an 18 in their primary ability score too.

[Nefreet]

The problem is that DEX is a Swashbuckler's key ability, so the highest STR you could start with would be 16.

Heh. Ninja'd by 56 seconds ^_^

[VampByDay]

Sure, yes, starting strength is 16 so you'd be at -1 to hit for level 1, but at level 5 you'd be the same as everyone else. And if you had a bard in the party it'd be even.

I've run a few characters with 16s in their starting stats and did okay.

I just . . . I had a fun idea for a Dwarf Swashbuckler that was running around with a hatchet and chain shirt and was basically very Dwarf-ey, but instead of a fighter . . . surprise! She's a swashbuckler, parrying and riposting with her hatchet and such. Sadly NO axe has the finesse trait and a dwarf with a rapier just doesn't have the same feel, y'know.

I just . . . I thought it would be funny to be all "This is Hilga, she's a dwarf in metal armor, has an axe and shield." And then see people's faces when she does a parry/riposte and tumbles through people's square.

[beowulf99]

No axe has the Finesse trait... but a couple do have the Agile trait.

The Boarding Axe is one, but is uncommon.

The Hatchet is the superior choice imo, since it has Sweep and can be thrown.

Edit: I see no reason to knock the build, even if you are "short" on str for your first few levels. It won't really be a problem for the majority of levels.

[pauljathome]

You're pretty much describing a Gymnast swashbuckler here.

One minor issue is getting heavier armor proficiencies since you'll likely have a lower dex. But there are lots of ways around that.

[VampByDay]

pauljathome wrote:

You're pretty much describing a Gymnast swashbuckler here.

One minor issue is getting heavier armor proficiencies since you'll likely have a lower dex. But there are lots of ways around that.

I was thinking:

Dwarf: +Con, +Wis, -Chr, +Freebee (Str)
Background: Something that gives +Str or Dex, +Freebee (whatever one I didn't get, so +str for a +dex background, or vice versa)
Swashbuckler: +dex
Four Freebees: +str, +dex, +con, +Chr (to even it out to 10)

Final stats: Str:16, Dex:16, Con: 14, Int: 10, Wis: 12, Chr: 10

Run around in Chain shirt which gives +2 to AC and a max dex of 3, giving me the same armor as everyone else.

And yes, I was going for the acrobat swashbuckler.

One upside is that with 16 strength and panache going, I do 1d6+5 damage, which is more than an 18 strength character at level 1 (except for barbarian when raging.) At level 2 I pick up you first and go last, and automatically get free panache at the start of a fight.

[Nefreet]

Go 18 Dex and 14 Str and throw your hatchets.

[VampByDay]

Nefreet wrote:

Go 18 Dex and 14 Str and throw your hatchets.

Uh, you can't. Because Swashbuckler gives you dex and not Strength. So the max strength is 16. Plus 16 strength/dex lets you hit more often and just reduces your damage by 1. But yes, flying blade was in the build idea.

[HumbleGamer]

He wrote go 18 dex and 14 str.

Not 18 str and 14 dex though.

[Gortle]

VampByDay wrote:

So . . . A swashbuckler's weapon just has to have the Finesse OR Agile weapon quality to benefit from precise strike right? And there's no penalty for using a shield right? So in theory a Swashbuckler could run around with a medium shield and high strength and an AGILE (but not finessable) weapon and use their strength to hit right?

Am I missing something or can I make a high strength, moderate dex swashbuckler who looks like a warrior, but instead of AoO they get opportune parry/riposte?

The question is how are you getting panache? Are you using finishers? For most swashbucklers Tumble Through is needed fairly often. You really do need the acrobatics score. So you do want Dex.

The 16 Str Gymnast Swash buckler works. But from level 10 they hang onto panache and are really a grapple control build.

It you really want to do an armoured swashbuckler with riposte, then you should start as another martial class and pick up riposte via a multiclass back into swashbuckler. You get the superior swashbuckler riposte that doesn't require you to wield a toothpick. Instead you can use a great axe or anything in between.

[HumbleGamer]

VampByDay wrote:

I just . . . I thought it would be funny to be all "This is Hilga, she's a dwarf in metal armor, has an axe and shield." And then see people's faces when she does a parry/riposte and tumbles through people's square.

You'd better achieve this with a fighter + swashbuckler dedication, though the only way I see to do this with a dwarf by lvl 2 is by using the amnesiac background and voluntary flaws:

18 str
14 dex
12 con
10 int
10 wis
14 char

[AlastarOG]

I have a dwarf fighter build going on right now that uses dueling riposte on a dwarven war axe.