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I'm just looking for general opinions on type more than "This is the only longarm you'll ever need" here as there's so many different types and options. Lets say you're level 10 there's a dozen different level 10 rifles alone and that option range goes up if you include different types that are a level above or below.
So what do people think is the best choice for longarms? My personal inclination is to either disintigrators or analog slug firing rifles like the combat rifle or the lvl 19 magnetar rifle which I especially like.
I would discount basically every weapon that targets KAC. Since KAC is usually 2 to 3 points higher on an enemy than EAC, the higher damage bonus is usually more than balanced by the difference in AC, unless you several outclass (or are outclassed by) your enemy.
Critical effects are usually best ignored too, and weapons with the unwieldly quality typically too.
After that, it would honestly depend on what energy types appear commonly in your campaign.
If you're fighting in Dead Suns, bringing fire damage is going to be a bad idea.
Beyond that, I'm not going to make a specific recommendation because I believe it's very dependent on your campaign, and any special abilities that might synergize with your character.
Well my party seem to like the laser rifles so far. Range and moderately good damage with a half decent clip. One has taken a fondness for the humorous disintegrator rifle. Humorous because its an SMG in size and the typical low damage rolls with a d20
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Agree, there's no "best in class" option. It depends on what you need and what you're doing.
Looking for raw damage? Grab something with an extra damage ability, like Boost or Polarity.
Like to have options? Grab something modal, or something that doesn't take empty hands to wield.
Know what you're up against? Take damage to match! Don't use Fire dmg in Dead Suns, don't use Acid dmg in Attack of the Swarm!, etc.
Not sure what to do? My fallback option is usually Sonic damage. Nothing Few things resist Sonic!
Typically things like boost are bad options, because they stop you from making a full attack, but if you're not a combat dedicated class you may not have a great attack bonus so boosting damage may be a good trade off. You also might need it to get through DR or energy resistance, although there are better options like using magic to change the energy type or switching to a back up weapon. Prior to level 10 there isn't much difference between an on level weapon and a level-2 weapon, which is also typically when energy resistance and or damage reduction are a more significant impact to your damage per hit.
But this all just proves the point that it's very situational.
Polarity is pretty great for a soldier though that can make extra ranged attacks beyond the base 2 people normally get.
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Longarms I have known and loved
The plasma bolter. Targets EAC , does a lot of damage. Is unwieldy. This is really good for envoys (because your move action improvs prevent you from full attacking anyway) and for spellcasters who don't have the bab or abilities to full attack through cover. Aim with a scope to knock 2 or 4 points off of the cover bonus and fire. Doing two damage types is generally a disadvantage, so keep a sonic rifle around just in case.
Caustoject the only EAC longarm for biohackers. The rules go wonky on whether this stops you from damaging with biohacks or medicinals or what have you, but the only other option is to try to hit KAC on a class where to hit is everything.
Sonic Rifle Meh damage but sonic is very reliable damage as very little resists sonic. Most of your damage comes from your level to specialization anyway. Deafen however is a terrible critical in starfinder... it does nothing. By the time you shoot someone they're already in combat so the init penalty doesn't apply, and starfinder spells don't have verbal (or any) components to mispeak while deafened. I suppose if you're hiding from a creature with blindsight/sense (sound) it could help but critting that kind of creature under those circumstances is a celestial alignment...
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The automatic sonic rifles introduced in armory pretty handily dominate at the levels they're available. They're usually higher damage than the other energy types yet they're the least resisted/immune energy by far. Range is average to ok (only lasers clearly beat them) and ammo usage is fine to somewhat costly, but not really a problem. The critical is terrible, but the times a critical effect is...critical to winning a combat are very few.
I would discount basically every weapon that targets KAC. Since KAC is usually 2 to 3 points higher on an enemy than EAC, the higher damage bonus is usually more than balanced by the difference in AC, unless you several outclass (or are outclassed by) your enemy.
This isn't true, it's usually 1-2 higher based on the last time I went through AA1 and AA2 to check everything. 0 higher for almost all incorporeal, 3 higher rarely. If you assume 2 higher, projectile weapons often still have the best DPR on a full BAB class, heavily so when it's 1 higher.
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The automatic sonic rifles introduced in armory pretty handily dominate at the levels they're available. They're usually higher damage than the other energy types yet they're the least resisted/immune energy by far. Range is average to ok (only lasers clearly beat them) and ammo usage is fine to somewhat costly, but not really a problem. The critical is terrible, but the times a critical effect is...critical to winning a combat are very few.
This isn't true, it's usually 1-2 higher based on the last time I went through AA1 and AA2 to check everything. 0 higher for almost all incorporeal, 3 higher rarely. If you assume 2 higher, projectile weapons often still have the best DPR on a full BAB class, heavily so when it's 1 higher.I would discount basically every weapon that targets KAC. Since KAC is usually 2 to 3 points higher on an enemy than EAC, the higher damage bonus is usually more than balanced by the difference in AC, unless you several outclass (or are outclassed by) your enemy.
To be honest I haven't done the math myself, and am just going from memory from what I remember being discussed in the past.
That said, our numbers aren't that far off but enough that it makes a difference in the analysis. Do you have an excel sheet or anything where you've done the analysis?
The reason I ask is because looking only at level 10 long arms, the top 5 guns (by average damage dice only) are:
1) Frost Maw Roar Class, 4d8 C, 18 avg
2) Needler Rifle, 4d6 P, 14 avg
3) Combat Rifle, 3d8 P, 13.5 avg
4) Reality Rifle, 2d12 E, 13 avg
5) Dross Gun Flux, 2d12 A, 13 avg
Ignoring the Frost Maw which is unwieldy the top two weapons are piercing damage by then the next two are energy weapons and only losing by 1 average point of damage. When you take into account that you're adding 10 points of damage from weapon specialization at this point, I find it very hard to believe that 1 average point of damage would ever put you at higher average dpr when you have to go against KAC that is ever higher than EAC (except at the point where you need a nat 20 to successfully attack or when the enemy AC is so low you only miss on nat 1).
Now this gap I'm certain grows over levels, but my experience has been games stop around level 13/14 so I'm not sure it grows very meaningfully.
I'd love to see the math if you've done some analysis though.
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A lot of it will depend on the character using it and what the player is "shooting" for in play. That said, there are a few things to consider:
1) EAC vs KAC. Usually only a minor difference, but it's more important for classes without full BAB.
2) Range. How important this will be is dependent on how your GM stages fights. If fights almost always happen on a small map or in enclosed spaces without any long sightlines ("You are in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike"), then it will be less important. If fights have larger maps and/or more open terrain (possibly including 3D maneuvering with jump jets, flight, etc.), then it will be more important.
3) Damage type. Electricity can be quite useful with all of the technology in Starfinder (including technological robots), so plasma and shock may be attractive choices. Sonic, as mentioned, can also be attractive as opponents are less likely to to have sonic resistance than resistance to other damage types. One thing to eventually plan around with a weapon that splits damage between two types (such as plasma) is to obtain a weapon fusion for one of the of the two damage types (flaming, frost, shock, corrosive, and/or thundering).
4) Other effects. Depending on the character, specific properties may also be a consideration instead of/in addition to damage: harrying for an envoy in combination with Get 'Em, injection weapons for biohackers, penetrating weapons for attacking objects and targets with hardness, polarize for characters with multiple attacks in the same round, stun to switch between lethal and nonlethal attacks, etc.
A lot of it will depend on the character using it and what the player is "shooting" for in play. That said, there are a few things to consider:
1) EAC vs KAC. Usually only a minor difference, but it's more important for classes without full BAB.
I did some quick analysis of level 20 weapons, which would theoretically have the biggest difference between weapons that target KAC and EAC. The highest damage dice longarm is the needler rifle supreme, at 56 avg damage. The disintegrator rifle eradictor is the best energy weapon by damage dice, but only has 30ft range so I'm ignoring it in favor of the blaze rifle phoenix class, with 49.5 avg damage. If you add 20 damage for weapon specialization, the difference in damage is less than 10%. If you have any other sources of damage increases it will reduce any further. So my basic analysis is that if KAC is generally 2 points higher than EAC then you will do slightly more damage with EAC targeting weapons than KAC targeting weapons. But it's honestly a small amount, at this level the variability of the dice will play a bigger role in your damage. Still, as a player I always prefer to have higher chance to hit and weapons that target EAC generally do that. My generic recommendation will always be to avoid KAC weapons as then you don't have to worry about damage reduction nor do you have to worry about your damage being ineffective (without fusions) against incorporeal creatures.
2) Range. How important this will be is dependent on how your GM stages fights. If fights almost always happen on a small map or in enclosed spaces without any long sightlines ("You are in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike"), then it will be less important. If fights have larger maps and/or more open terrain (possibly including 3D maneuvering with jump jets, flight, etc.), then it will be more important.
3) Damage type. Electricity can be quite useful with all of the technology in Starfinder (including technological robots), so plasma and shock may be attractive choices. Sonic, as mentioned, can also be attractive as opponents are less likely to to have sonic resistance than resistance to other damage types. One thing to eventually plan around with a weapon that splits damage between two types (such as plasma) is to obtain a weapon fusion for one of the of the two damage types (flaming, frost, shock, corrosive, and/or thundering).
4) Other effects. Depending on the character, specific properties may also be a consideration instead of/in addition to damage: harrying for an envoy in combination with Get 'Em, injection weapons for biohackers, penetrating weapons for attacking objects and targets with hardness, polarize for characters with multiple attacks in the same round, stun to switch between lethal and nonlethal attacks, etc.
I agree with the rest of your analysis though. Range is only as important as your GM makes it be. Typically long range isn't very useful because most maps don't accommodate it. It's why sniper weapons are bad.
Dual energy weapons with a fusion can be really great for getting around an energy resistance you might run into, or activating an energy vulnerability. It offers great versatility.
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I admit to a personal preference for the analog automatic magnetar rifle. Though the laser zenith would have that spot if not for all its drawbacks. The hammer stacoto sonic isn't bad. Hmm perhaps a fusion laser with acid (longer range disintigrator) or sonic damage hmmmm. The disintigrator option does appeal star trek phaser. Add fusion, trigger fusion do 6D6F/5d6A with a crit 3d6F/2d6A at 150' and half free of lasers benefits/drawbacks. This does appeal and you can always have a proper sonic rifle on ship as well as a magnetar.
Note the existence of the Reverbation Amplifier armor upgrade for boosting sonic damage. For soldiers gear boosts can make projectile or laser more interesting.
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My issue with lasers is the various drawbacks blocked by smoke, can't shoot invisible enemies, etc.Um, citation very much needed. Where are you getting the idea that invisibility makes you invulnerable to lasers? Note, "light passes through you when invisible" is not a rules cite, especially since there are a ton of different forms of invisibility not all of which would even theoretically make you perfectly transparent.
( Also, note that smoke doesn't "block" lasers, it just counts as cover as well as concealment. You can still shoot someone with a laser who is behind smoke, it is just a little harder than if you used a different weapon. )
It is mentioned in the core rulebook on page 184:
Laser Weapons
Laser weapons emit highly focused beams of light that deal fire damage. These beams can pass through glass and other transparent physical barriers, dealing damage to such barriers as they pass through. Barriers of energy or magical force block lasers. Invisible creatures don’t take damage from lasers, as the beams pass through them harmlessly. Fog, smoke, and other clouds provide both cover and concealment from laser attacks. Lasers can penetrate darkness, but they don’t provide any illumination.Laser weapons use various means to concentrate beams of light into deadly intensity. Some focus light through a faceted crystal, while others focus the beam through a chemical cloud or ionized gas.
So yes, if you are invisible you are immune to laser weapons no matter how magical or augmented the weapon is. It is good to have the spell(gem) with you in case of a sudden laser trap or laser sniper ambushes. And while reading these rules I also notice that you can shoot through translucent objects and still do damage.
My issue with lasers is the various drawbacks blocked by smoke, can't shoot invisible enemies, etc.Um, citation very much needed. Where are you getting the idea that invisibility makes you invulnerable to lasers? Note, "light passes through you when invisible" is not a rules cite, especially since there are a ton of different forms of invisibility not all of which would even theoretically make you perfectly transparent.
( Also, note that smoke doesn't "block" lasers, it just counts as cover as well as concealment. You can still shoot someone with a laser who is behind smoke, it is just a little harder than if you used a different weapon. )
It's 100% the rules.
Laser Rifle
With its snub, squared barrel and internal reinforcements, a laser rifle is sturdy and dependable.
Laser Weapons
Laser weapons emit highly focused beams of light that deal fire damage. These beams can pass through glass and other transparent physical barriers, dealing damage to such barriers as they pass through. Barriers of energy or magical force block lasers. Invisible creatures don’t take damage from lasers, as the beams pass through them harmlessly. Fog, smoke, and other clouds provide both cover and concealment from laser attacks. Lasers can penetrate darkness, but they don’t provide any illumination.
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My issue with lasers is the various drawbacks blocked by smoke, can't shoot invisible enemies, etc.Um, citation very much needed. Where are you getting the idea that invisibility makes you invulnerable to lasers? Note, "light passes through you when invisible" is not a rules cite, especially since there are a ton of different forms of invisibility not all of which would even theoretically make you perfectly transparent.
( Also, note that smoke doesn't "block" lasers, it just counts as cover as well as concealment. You can still shoot someone with a laser who is behind smoke, it is just a little harder than if you used a different weapon. )
It is mentioned in the core rulebook on page 184:
So yes, if you are invisible you are immune to laser weapons no matter how magical or augmented the weapon is. It is good to have the spell(gem) with you in case of a sudden laser trap or laser sniper ambushes. And while reading these rules I also notice that you can shoot through translucent objects and still do damage.Laser Weapons
Laser weapons emit highly focused beams of light that deal fire damage. These beams can pass through glass and other transparent physical barriers, dealing damage to such barriers as they pass through. Barriers of energy or magical force block lasers. Invisible creatures don’t take damage from lasers, as the beams pass through them harmlessly. Fog, smoke, and other clouds provide both cover and concealment from laser attacks. Lasers can penetrate darkness, but they don’t provide any illumination.Laser weapons use various means to concentrate beams of light into deadly intensity. Some focus light through a faceted crystal, while others focus the beam through a chemical cloud or ionized gas.
Yep there are definately a few bonuses to lasers like having the longest range but they have sadly a lot of drawbacks. Enough that I'm reluctant to use them even though they're fairly common in scifi.